• OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Regardless, the defining characteristic of Apartheid is rule over the uncontenting majority by the minority.

    Source for the majority/minority claim?

    That is the harm of apartheid and that the thing that makes it a crime against humanity as opposed to regular old discrimination.

    But “regular old discrimination” is still not a good thing, right?

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It’s baked into the definition of any primary source you might look at. For example the UN convention defines the crime of apartheid as something like “such discriminatory policies as practiced in South Africa,” etc., etc. it’s also inherent to the hallmarks of Apartheid, like, what would have been offensive to humanity about a political majority discriminating or disenfranchising itself? If they didn’t like the discrimination or disenfranchisment, they have the majority power to stop it. “As practiced in South Africa,” refers to little else if not the majority who had been systemically denied their inherent majoritarian political power.

      I realize modern organizations use the word apartheid to to describe Israel and I’m sure it’s great for their fundraising. Self interested experts and thinkers say all sorts of things. Most of them, at least disinterested scholars writing in law reviews, for example, if you look closely, are saying that Israel is like Apartheid.

      To the extent some make the argument that Israel is literally apartheid, they are glossing over the actual state of things in South African Apartheid that made it so offensive to humanity. Like LaFayette said “the good fortune of America is closely tied to the good fortune of all humanity.” He was talking about the idea of government of, by, and for the people, likez to be copacetic with humanity, a government must derive it’s legitimacy through the popular consent of the governed, who is represented by people chosen from among them, it means a constitutional compact, things South Africa did not have as a result of how its black majority citizens were treated by their own government’s laws. Those that defeated Apartheid speak of its downfall in terms of “gaining our democracy” and “the democratic transformation.” The day apartheid died is considered the day they had the first election afterward. Israel has free elections. Hama could host elections too if it wanted. It had an election once, then immediately cancelled all future elections, which is a crime against humanity in itself.

      Also, take note, if you look closely at analysis that says Israel literally is Apartheid, they are citing work of scholars, jurists, and experts, who were doing research in comparative law. I.e., they were comparing Israel and South Africa from the starting point that, although they are alike in certain ways which are useful for legal scholars to compare in peer reviewed journals, they are materially different things. In other words, like if you decide to go click through KeepOnStalin’s non-profit link spam, check for yourself and see if the authorities they cite for their presuppositions aren’t being misrepresented, and that they aren’t going circles, i.e. B’Tselem citing HRW, HRW citing Amnesty, Amnesty citing B’Tselem, and that all of them aren’t citing unverified reports published in veritable tabloids owned by Qatar and Egypt, or directly from Hamas. They also gloss over their presupposition that Apartheid can be something a country does to non citizens. No country afaik gives full rights to non citizens.

      Yes, run of the mill racial discrimination is bad. There is racial discrimination all around and it should be rooted out and made equitable. That’s where strong minoritarian rights and protections come into play, a constitution based on something other than biblical nonsense, for example.

      A policy of discrimination voted on by all people is far more palatable than one arising from religious proclamation or superstition, or from a minority, such as they have in Iran.

      • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        The convention says:

        the term “the crime of apartheid”, which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practised in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

        Then it goes on to list some acts. Note that it says similar to not identical to. And it says over any other racial group. Absolutely nothing in there about majority/minority status.

        So where did you see this? What makes you think this?

        what would have been offensive to humanity about a political majority discriminating or disenfranchising itself? If they didn’t like the discrimination or disenfranchisment, they have the majority power to stop it.

        Nobody is suggesting this.

        What about if the majority discriminates against a minority , who doesn’t have the political power to stop it? That is offensive to humanity, so why would you exclude this from the definition of apartheid? That’s why they wrote the definition the way they did. South Africa isn’t the only way it can be.

          • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Then why is that explicitly not part of the definition?

            “Similar” =/= identical. If all of the societal prejudice, injustice and disparity is still there but it’s 51% oppressing 49% instead of 49% oppressing 51% are you seriously saying that this is a totally different thing?

          • ???@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            @JustZ@lemmy.world here is the legal definition of the crime of Apartheid

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid

            "The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity “committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime" .”

            The other definitions are similar. Nothing about majority or minority. Nothing about having to be exactly like South Africa.