I completely agree that individuals have no responsibility to contribute, and thank you for your own contributions. But I completely disagree that a company like WP Engine should get a free pass. I see this as a paradox of tolerance and someone is willing to lose face and money over it. He didn’t get to $400m by hording, he got there by creating and sharing WordPress and promoting a community that is supposed to lift us all up
I’m not saying they shouldn’t contribute; I’m saying there’s no universe in where you should be forced to give 8% (or any amount of) of your revenue to another business as a tithe to be allowed to use GPL software.
It’s the method of extraction I’m disagreeing with here, not that they shouldn’t contribute to what their business runs on.
And yes, technically it’s the Trademark we’re discussing rather than the software, but, ultimately, not being able to use the name of the thing is the same impact from a business perspective. Especially because Matt made sure that only Matt has a license to use the name and Matt is the only one who can decide if Matt should allow someone else to use it, also.
It’d be like Linus saying that Canonical can’t use the Linux trademark, and then going on an unhinged rant in public about how it’s theft that they’re using his trademark.
community that is supposed to lift us all up
Sadly, Matt is busy lighting that community on fire because he thinks he’s owed something for a business (which he also used to own a major portion of, for the extra lols) using GPLed software, which is also something I, in general, disagree with: the whole point of free software is that it’s free. If you want to get rich, make some proprietary software that everyone must use.
creating and sharing WordPress
The hilarious thing here is that WordPress is, itself, a fork of GPLed software. Not saying he didn’t spend an enormous amount of time and resources on improving it, but B2 is the reason it’s under GPL (since Matt would probably have picked a different license, if he could have.)
Bunch of great points, thanks. Funny you mention Linus, I’m pretty sure he’s done that a bunch. First thing that comes to mind is the “f*** you Nvidia” on stage 😂 in the grand scheme of things I just hope this blows over quickly, takes power away from all the ceos and companies involved. I don’t see anyone benefitting from this in the short or long term, especially the users.
I really don’t want WordPress to suffer, I feel like it’s one of the last pillars standing against a bland sea of identical social media profiles. Given enough time, completely unchecked, I see WP Engine moving heavily towards enshitification like that, and I think Matt wants to avoid that too? 🙏
Linus is a character, but he’s not the kind of character that’d have this kind of public breakdown and start demanding everyone pay him. Which is good, considering that he’s also the shepherd of a shocking amount of hard and soft power since the world has decided to mostly run on his little kernel.
I’ll disclaim this by saying I hhhhaaaaaate Wordpress, but that’s mostly because it’s an insecure buggy mess that has made most of my 25 years in IT an absolute chore every time it gets anywhere near me, lol. (And I think Wordpress in general is as bland as a bucket of warm wallpaper paste, and we should bring back MySpace, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion.)
I think the ultimate end here is going to be that we have a hard fork, and the commercial providers will just fuck off with the code and go make NewPress or something. It’ll still be GPL and thus open, so there’s a limited amount of enshittification you can do there, but this whole thing kind of covers why I’ve always been leery of projects that have someone who owns IP rights in it, and also owns the primary commercial provider of hosted services of said product without there being a proper firewall between the two organizations.
That’s two VERY opposing sets of interests, and it’s far too easy to, well, do what he’s doing now and regardless of if he’s right or wrong, he’s still going to torch a ton of trust in wordpress-the-software since the people who actually use it are not going to give half a shit why they couldn’t update a plugin or whatever and got hacked, they’re going to (rightfully, in my opinion) go ‘fucking wordpress!’ and move to something less open, like Wix or Squarespace.
I completely agree that individuals have no responsibility to contribute, and thank you for your own contributions. But I completely disagree that a company like WP Engine should get a free pass. I see this as a paradox of tolerance and someone is willing to lose face and money over it. He didn’t get to $400m by hording, he got there by creating and sharing WordPress and promoting a community that is supposed to lift us all up
I’m not saying they shouldn’t contribute; I’m saying there’s no universe in where you should be forced to give 8% (or any amount of) of your revenue to another business as a tithe to be allowed to use GPL software.
It’s the method of extraction I’m disagreeing with here, not that they shouldn’t contribute to what their business runs on.
And yes, technically it’s the Trademark we’re discussing rather than the software, but, ultimately, not being able to use the name of the thing is the same impact from a business perspective. Especially because Matt made sure that only Matt has a license to use the name and Matt is the only one who can decide if Matt should allow someone else to use it, also.
It’d be like Linus saying that Canonical can’t use the Linux trademark, and then going on an unhinged rant in public about how it’s theft that they’re using his trademark.
Sadly, Matt is busy lighting that community on fire because he thinks he’s owed something for a business (which he also used to own a major portion of, for the extra lols) using GPLed software, which is also something I, in general, disagree with: the whole point of free software is that it’s free. If you want to get rich, make some proprietary software that everyone must use.
The hilarious thing here is that WordPress is, itself, a fork of GPLed software. Not saying he didn’t spend an enormous amount of time and resources on improving it, but B2 is the reason it’s under GPL (since Matt would probably have picked a different license, if he could have.)
Bunch of great points, thanks. Funny you mention Linus, I’m pretty sure he’s done that a bunch. First thing that comes to mind is the “f*** you Nvidia” on stage 😂 in the grand scheme of things I just hope this blows over quickly, takes power away from all the ceos and companies involved. I don’t see anyone benefitting from this in the short or long term, especially the users.
I really don’t want WordPress to suffer, I feel like it’s one of the last pillars standing against a bland sea of identical social media profiles. Given enough time, completely unchecked, I see WP Engine moving heavily towards enshitification like that, and I think Matt wants to avoid that too? 🙏
Linus is a character, but he’s not the kind of character that’d have this kind of public breakdown and start demanding everyone pay him. Which is good, considering that he’s also the shepherd of a shocking amount of hard and soft power since the world has decided to mostly run on his little kernel.
I’ll disclaim this by saying I hhhhaaaaaate Wordpress, but that’s mostly because it’s an insecure buggy mess that has made most of my 25 years in IT an absolute chore every time it gets anywhere near me, lol. (And I think Wordpress in general is as bland as a bucket of warm wallpaper paste, and we should bring back MySpace, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion.)
I think the ultimate end here is going to be that we have a hard fork, and the commercial providers will just fuck off with the code and go make NewPress or something. It’ll still be GPL and thus open, so there’s a limited amount of enshittification you can do there, but this whole thing kind of covers why I’ve always been leery of projects that have someone who owns IP rights in it, and also owns the primary commercial provider of hosted services of said product without there being a proper firewall between the two organizations.
That’s two VERY opposing sets of interests, and it’s far too easy to, well, do what he’s doing now and regardless of if he’s right or wrong, he’s still going to torch a ton of trust in wordpress-the-software since the people who actually use it are not going to give half a shit why they couldn’t update a plugin or whatever and got hacked, they’re going to (rightfully, in my opinion) go ‘fucking wordpress!’ and move to something less open, like Wix or Squarespace.