In Germany, more than 60% of Black people and Muslims have experienced discrimination, according to a new study by the National Discrimination and Racism Monitor. The consequences can be severe.
Our major advantage as a species is that we evolve faster culturally than most species can genetically.
Can we? Is this a statement of fact, or is this just wishful thinking on your part? Because I know quite a bit about history and, time and time again this doesn’t seem to be true whatsoever. We are tribalistic by nature, and we’ve never been able to permanently break this fact.
It’s not appealing to tribalism, it’s understanding of the factual nature of ourselves. You have to know the worst of humanity, because you’re never going to rid yourself of it. Many things will knock us down as people to our most basic of instincts, and these basic rules still govern our actions.
I happen to live in the real world, not some idealistic utopia of what the world “could be”.
Yes. Its observable just by looking at culture and society now versus thousands or even just hundreds or tens of years ago and comparing it to the time it takes for even a subspecies to arise. And, as information exchange speeds up due to technology, culture exchanges even faster and society develops faster.
I didn’t say we don’t have in groups and out groups (tribalism). I say we have control over what we consider in and out groups. It’s not idealism. It’s not what the world could be. Its just observable fact. We’ve literally shifted cultural perception in the last 50 years on all sorts of in and out groups (black and gay people are easy examples).
We didn’t shift cultural perception at all. We may have enacted laws, but the people aren’t any more or less receptive than they have been. That will take generations. Only thing that happened is that people hid it. Take a good long look at US politics and tell me that gay people and black people are any more accepted than they were…as half the population looks to tear down the institutions which allowed their equality to happen…
You haven’t changed people. Your society hasn’t changed what people are. They’ve only changed what you see from the outside. It’s only people like you, who have never had to live in the dregs of society who have this rosey ideal of the world.
Culture comes and goes. Shifts and ebbs and flows. Humanity may take longer to evolve, but that also means that what has evolved is much more stable, and much more rock solid than ‘civility’ could ever budge. We have higher-order thinking brains, and lower-order feeling brains. The lower-order feeling brain is the one that drives sex, food, hunger, and survival. That tribalistic instinct comes from that lower-order brain, and no amount of education will ever eliminate how it functions. The only way to do that would be eugenics, and the world has decided that is a “bad thing”.
If you actually think gay people are accepted the same now as in the 80s then you’re so dedicated to nonfactual pessimism that it’s a lost cause. Is there still room for improvement? Yes. But gay people used to be treated like lepers by general society.
Also its blatantly incorrect that half of society wants to tear down institutions that help black and gay people. Don’t get me wrong. It’s really bad. There are too many hateful people. But never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I think we both agree people can be very stupid, but really disagree in the way we see that play out. Many who vote maga are low information voters. But that’s because the right wing runs a propaganda machine of the highest order that promises these people the fascists aren’t the bad guys who want to take away peoples rights. Even then, not even half the population voted maga.
You’re not laying out facts. You’re feeding into negativity in a way that exaggerates things in a way that is harmful. For example, you just inferred eugenics might not be a bad thing? Serious wtf my man. You need to get a grip on your pessimism because its warping your mind. You’re seeing threats in a way that you’re horseshoeing into what you criticize.
Can we? Is this a statement of fact, or is this just wishful thinking on your part? Because I know quite a bit about history and, time and time again this doesn’t seem to be true whatsoever. We are tribalistic by nature, and we’ve never been able to permanently break this fact.
It’s not appealing to tribalism, it’s understanding of the factual nature of ourselves. You have to know the worst of humanity, because you’re never going to rid yourself of it. Many things will knock us down as people to our most basic of instincts, and these basic rules still govern our actions.
I happen to live in the real world, not some idealistic utopia of what the world “could be”.
Yes. Its observable just by looking at culture and society now versus thousands or even just hundreds or tens of years ago and comparing it to the time it takes for even a subspecies to arise. And, as information exchange speeds up due to technology, culture exchanges even faster and society develops faster.
I didn’t say we don’t have in groups and out groups (tribalism). I say we have control over what we consider in and out groups. It’s not idealism. It’s not what the world could be. Its just observable fact. We’ve literally shifted cultural perception in the last 50 years on all sorts of in and out groups (black and gay people are easy examples).
We didn’t shift cultural perception at all. We may have enacted laws, but the people aren’t any more or less receptive than they have been. That will take generations. Only thing that happened is that people hid it. Take a good long look at US politics and tell me that gay people and black people are any more accepted than they were…as half the population looks to tear down the institutions which allowed their equality to happen…
You haven’t changed people. Your society hasn’t changed what people are. They’ve only changed what you see from the outside. It’s only people like you, who have never had to live in the dregs of society who have this rosey ideal of the world.
Culture comes and goes. Shifts and ebbs and flows. Humanity may take longer to evolve, but that also means that what has evolved is much more stable, and much more rock solid than ‘civility’ could ever budge. We have higher-order thinking brains, and lower-order feeling brains. The lower-order feeling brain is the one that drives sex, food, hunger, and survival. That tribalistic instinct comes from that lower-order brain, and no amount of education will ever eliminate how it functions. The only way to do that would be eugenics, and the world has decided that is a “bad thing”.
If you actually think gay people are accepted the same now as in the 80s then you’re so dedicated to nonfactual pessimism that it’s a lost cause. Is there still room for improvement? Yes. But gay people used to be treated like lepers by general society.
Also its blatantly incorrect that half of society wants to tear down institutions that help black and gay people. Don’t get me wrong. It’s really bad. There are too many hateful people. But never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I think we both agree people can be very stupid, but really disagree in the way we see that play out. Many who vote maga are low information voters. But that’s because the right wing runs a propaganda machine of the highest order that promises these people the fascists aren’t the bad guys who want to take away peoples rights. Even then, not even half the population voted maga.
You’re not laying out facts. You’re feeding into negativity in a way that exaggerates things in a way that is harmful. For example, you just inferred eugenics might not be a bad thing? Serious wtf my man. You need to get a grip on your pessimism because its warping your mind. You’re seeing threats in a way that you’re horseshoeing into what you criticize.