Europe has proven we can’t fix this by importing millions of unskilled people with radically different values. The social unrest is proving catastrophic. Rightwing parties are gaining traction in almost every European country. The EU is on track to accept more than a million applications this year alone, and most of them have large families which will be granted reunification. Data shows most of them will never work a day in their lives. Our social systems will collapse within a decade at this rate. We’ll be lucky if the EU itself survives this.
Instead, we really need to alleviate the issues resulting in young people not having kids. The usual argument is, “it’s too expensive.” While true, data shows that income isn’t a barrier to fertility. In fact, higher income results in lower fertility, with some exceptions at the very top end of the income spectrum.
As a German, I call bullshit. Every asylum seeker I’ve met either had a job/went to school or was denied a job because the application didn’t go through yet. I’m sure there are people out there who don’t want to work, but please show me the data which shows that “most of them will never work a day in their lives”. Your comment sounds EXACTLY like the rhetorics of the same right-wing you pretend to condemn.
The figures show improvement over time, of course, as German language skills are picked up and general integration occurs, but as that last source puts it: “…the integration process remains fragile, and in its early stages. Much work remains ahead for both Syrian refugees and the German authorities.”
As a Dane, I call bullshit. Show me the stats. Here are ours. Syrian migrants have an employment rate of under 20%. Somali immigrants are under 30%. As you can tell by the same link, their crime rate is astronomical.
As someone from a country where the AfD gains increasing popularity on an almost daily basis, calling “bullshit” rings completely hollow. You clearly have no idea how bad things have become for your average countryman.
Yes it doesn’t work if you make it impossible or very hard for it to work. I’m obviously not perfectly sure but for the amount of refugees we have both in Germany and likely Denmark, especially now with Ukraine we spend way to little money on the process of integration, if there’s not enough (language) schools, shitty temporary housing and unhelpful and uncooperative Ausländerbehörden, we shouldn’t turn to blaming the people who come here for the problems we in the “West” largely created.
Blaming and viliviying Somali and Syrian migrants just gets us increasingly deeper into this rabbit hole, until at the end of the day you have fundamentalist or ethnic riots, or firing squads at the outside borders. Both is completely unworkable, incredibly more expensive and frankly inhumane.
The conservatives that think human rights are a good thing should get their head out of fantasy land, the crusty socdems should ask themselves how they let this shit happen, and yeah the afd isn’t gonna fix it but closing the borders as they demand is the most stupid non solution ever, just letting the thing heat up there on the outskirts until it blows up in all of our faces. Which it will continue to as long as no one takes it seriously enough to actually make a good solution. But relying on the publics generosity and frankly Kafkaesque government regulation and support isn’t gonna get you well integrated migrants in a generation, it takes 3 maybe 5 in that case. Which is what we’ve been doing.
We don’t have enough houses and schools for everyone as is. If you’re saying we need even more, no one is arguing with you. We’re arguing that, given reality, adding more unskilled and illiterate migrants makes all of our problems much worse.
You argue that protecting the border is impossible, and I couldn’t disagree more. Countries have been successfully protecting their borders for millennia. If you’re arguing that Germany just happens to be the most incompetent country in all of history, I strongly disagree. This is only a matter of political will. It’s only a matter of time until AfD is elected, because successive governments have refused to protect the border. When they’re in power, they’ll reduce the refugee quota to zero and expel everyone who illegally immigrated. Then they’ll restrict migration from countries from which migrants are overrepresented in crime and unemployment. People will cheer.
Germany (and most Western countries) have a few short years to make realistic concessions to their people before AfD and other far right parties take charge entirely. Decide if you want compromise, or the worst possible outcome. Those are your only choices right now.
In this same reality it’s also still more expensive, logistically difficult and just again inhumane. If the afd is getting close to taking charge entirely, I’ll take my bike to France to learn how to make the polices job a living hell. Just resigning to stupid outdated thinking doesn’t seem particularly appealing to me.
Sure some might cheer when they start to push that hard against immigration. Others will riot and burn the streets even worse than they do already. Because for example we believe having such a thing as universal human rights is a good idea.
Because completely counter to whatever you think about defending borders countries have for literal time immemorial tried and failed to gain advantage or prevent each other from doing so by military force. It’s been catastrophic every single time. Or are the Greeks Romans, Chinese kingdoms, Nazis, Soviets, still here with us today, did they have a graceful and good end to their reign.
The choice you present is false both options will inevitably end in the decline of the West, one just might be faster than the other. But there is in theory at least better alternatives, they just require Europeans to stop being US lapdogs. And letting go of the thousands of years old doctrine of military and economic domination, that creates most of its own problems to begin with.
I’m in the UK and the handful of asylum seekers I’ve met who are unemployed, have significant trauma and or disability and shouldn’t be working as they are barely coping as it is.
If we can support citizens with these conditions on unemployment, it’s nothing but racism to deny this support to people here under asylum.
And unless some kind of supernatural magic occurs that stops capitalism, climate collapse, resource depletion, and all the genocidal authoritarianist politics humans seem to be so naturally predisposed to, birthrates should continue to fall. Adding to our numbers is nothing short of insanity at this point.
No. Reducing the capacity of already strained social services makes them worse. WTF is wrong with you that you want to remove social services from struggling people??
Europe has proven we can’t fix this by importing millions of unskilled people with radically different values. The social unrest is proving catastrophic. Rightwing parties are gaining traction in almost every European country. The EU is on track to accept more than a million applications this year alone, and most of them have large families which will be granted reunification. Data shows most of them will never work a day in their lives. Our social systems will collapse within a decade at this rate. We’ll be lucky if the EU itself survives this.
Instead, we really need to alleviate the issues resulting in young people not having kids. The usual argument is, “it’s too expensive.” While true, data shows that income isn’t a barrier to fertility. In fact, higher income results in lower fertility, with some exceptions at the very top end of the income spectrum.
As a German, I call bullshit. Every asylum seeker I’ve met either had a job/went to school or was denied a job because the application didn’t go through yet. I’m sure there are people out there who don’t want to work, but please show me the data which shows that “most of them will never work a day in their lives”. Your comment sounds EXACTLY like the rhetorics of the same right-wing you pretend to condemn.
Official unemployment figures show that nearly two-thirds (65%) of Syrians who are able to work actually rely either entirely or partially on receiving public benefits.
Euractiv link to the same stat
Source from a website self-labelled as "A platform for Syrians to own their discourse
The figures show improvement over time, of course, as German language skills are picked up and general integration occurs, but as that last source puts it: “…the integration process remains fragile, and in its early stages. Much work remains ahead for both Syrian refugees and the German authorities.”
As a Dane, I call bullshit. Show me the stats. Here are ours. Syrian migrants have an employment rate of under 20%. Somali immigrants are under 30%. As you can tell by the same link, their crime rate is astronomical.
As someone from a country where the AfD gains increasing popularity on an almost daily basis, calling “bullshit” rings completely hollow. You clearly have no idea how bad things have become for your average countryman.
https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/oecd-migration-beschaeftigung-100.html shrug
Yes it doesn’t work if you make it impossible or very hard for it to work. I’m obviously not perfectly sure but for the amount of refugees we have both in Germany and likely Denmark, especially now with Ukraine we spend way to little money on the process of integration, if there’s not enough (language) schools, shitty temporary housing and unhelpful and uncooperative Ausländerbehörden, we shouldn’t turn to blaming the people who come here for the problems we in the “West” largely created.
Blaming and viliviying Somali and Syrian migrants just gets us increasingly deeper into this rabbit hole, until at the end of the day you have fundamentalist or ethnic riots, or firing squads at the outside borders. Both is completely unworkable, incredibly more expensive and frankly inhumane.
The conservatives that think human rights are a good thing should get their head out of fantasy land, the crusty socdems should ask themselves how they let this shit happen, and yeah the afd isn’t gonna fix it but closing the borders as they demand is the most stupid non solution ever, just letting the thing heat up there on the outskirts until it blows up in all of our faces. Which it will continue to as long as no one takes it seriously enough to actually make a good solution. But relying on the publics generosity and frankly Kafkaesque government regulation and support isn’t gonna get you well integrated migrants in a generation, it takes 3 maybe 5 in that case. Which is what we’ve been doing.
We don’t have enough houses and schools for everyone as is. If you’re saying we need even more, no one is arguing with you. We’re arguing that, given reality, adding more unskilled and illiterate migrants makes all of our problems much worse.
You argue that protecting the border is impossible, and I couldn’t disagree more. Countries have been successfully protecting their borders for millennia. If you’re arguing that Germany just happens to be the most incompetent country in all of history, I strongly disagree. This is only a matter of political will. It’s only a matter of time until AfD is elected, because successive governments have refused to protect the border. When they’re in power, they’ll reduce the refugee quota to zero and expel everyone who illegally immigrated. Then they’ll restrict migration from countries from which migrants are overrepresented in crime and unemployment. People will cheer.
Germany (and most Western countries) have a few short years to make realistic concessions to their people before AfD and other far right parties take charge entirely. Decide if you want compromise, or the worst possible outcome. Those are your only choices right now.
In this same reality it’s also still more expensive, logistically difficult and just again inhumane. If the afd is getting close to taking charge entirely, I’ll take my bike to France to learn how to make the polices job a living hell. Just resigning to stupid outdated thinking doesn’t seem particularly appealing to me.
Sure some might cheer when they start to push that hard against immigration. Others will riot and burn the streets even worse than they do already. Because for example we believe having such a thing as universal human rights is a good idea.
Because completely counter to whatever you think about defending borders countries have for literal time immemorial tried and failed to gain advantage or prevent each other from doing so by military force. It’s been catastrophic every single time. Or are the Greeks Romans, Chinese kingdoms, Nazis, Soviets, still here with us today, did they have a graceful and good end to their reign.
The choice you present is false both options will inevitably end in the decline of the West, one just might be faster than the other. But there is in theory at least better alternatives, they just require Europeans to stop being US lapdogs. And letting go of the thousands of years old doctrine of military and economic domination, that creates most of its own problems to begin with.
I’m in the UK and the handful of asylum seekers I’ve met who are unemployed, have significant trauma and or disability and shouldn’t be working as they are barely coping as it is.
If we can support citizens with these conditions on unemployment, it’s nothing but racism to deny this support to people here under asylum.
And unless some kind of supernatural magic occurs that stops capitalism, climate collapse, resource depletion, and all the genocidal authoritarianist politics humans seem to be so naturally predisposed to, birthrates should continue to fall. Adding to our numbers is nothing short of insanity at this point.
We appear to agree about the situation as it is. However you are arguing you wish to make it worse. I, and most Europeans, do not.
Because supporting people makes things worse? Wtf has to be wrong with you to consider providing basic resources to struggling people, a bad thing?
No. Reducing the capacity of already strained social services makes them worse. WTF is wrong with you that you want to remove social services from struggling people??