@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It’s not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn’t, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let’s not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren’t
So, no amount of video, showing bunkers and doctor statements is satisfactory for you. What does it take for you to change mind? Any amount of evidence exist to convince you that known terrorist group that used and uses human shield used the hospital? Or do you live in the world where you just decide what to believe because you like it, and ignore everything else staring right in your face?
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte No amount of Israeli propaganda will sway me, because having a bunker isn’t illegal, especially considering the nature of Israeli attacks against Palestinians for DECADES! Worse, the pictures are showing you are completely empty. You are completely taking and occupation military’s propaganda as gospel. That is the definition of naive.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte witness statements as given to the IDF and you took as gospel.
Are you being serious right now? I mean really?
Thought experiment for you, what is the difference between a Hamas bunker and a civilian shelter? Do you really believe Israel will honestly tell you? Remember, we’re talking about the same state sponsored terrorists who have literally bombed civilian convoys in the safe corridors they established
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte your problem is that no matter how you want to cut it, Israel is operating in the wrong from the start. They are the occupation force, resisting an occupation is LEGAL, and any nation under that circumstance would do the exact same thing.
That said, was Hamas’s actions against civilians on October 7th a terrorist attack, yes.
Has Israel engaged in terrorism against Palestinian civilians for decades, YES
Has Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, YES
I never said that resisting occupation is illegal. But we are talking about Hamas and sector Gaza here. There was no occupation of sector Gaza from 2005-ish.
You are saying that there is ethnic cleansing that happen in sector Gaza for years. Did you check the population of sector Gaza? The only ethnic cleansing that happened there was when Israel removed Jewish settlements. So let’s not through big scary words like “ethnic cleansing” when simple check of reality on the ground is totally against the meaning of the word. That includes today’s war where IDF goal is removing Hamas. Yes, there are civilian casualties - it happens in a war especially when Hamas uses civilian shield.
Now, with respect of Israel engaging “terrorism”, aren’t you confusing things? Was it, again, Hamas that was promised to destroy Israel and was shooting rockets into Israel and doing other terrorist acts? What Israel could possibly do when your neighbor shoots rockets at you with promise to destroy you? What? Again, Gaza Strip was NOT occupied. West Bank was, but would you de-occupy the West Bank when it might go the way Gaza Strip went with Hamas coming to power and following terrorist attacks for years?
Also, if it was Israel goal to do ethnic cleansing of sector Gaza at any point, than it would have done it - no Hamas resistance would be enough.
But let me put forward a simple truth, which you seem to ignore - there is no path to peace with Hamas in power. None. For the sake of Palestinians and everyone in the region, it must be removed. If you do not want the repeat of the same situation for both Israelites and Palestinian people with casualties in civilian population on both sides, Hamas has to go. There is just no alternative. No matter what crimes who did in the past - the path to the peace does not include Hamas staying in power.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It’s not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn’t, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let’s not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren’t
No, he was not under duress. He was given interview in UK.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte Citation?
Sorry, don’t remember where. I think it was posted in fediverse with a link.
EDIT: not the original source, but I found it by googling:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12770641/amp/gaza-al-shifa-hospital-british-doctor-claim-hamas-warning.html
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte “a British doctor”
Umm, yeah that sounds _totally_ reputable /s
Are you really this naive?
So, no amount of video, showing bunkers and doctor statements is satisfactory for you. What does it take for you to change mind? Any amount of evidence exist to convince you that known terrorist group that used and uses human shield used the hospital? Or do you live in the world where you just decide what to believe because you like it, and ignore everything else staring right in your face?
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte No amount of Israeli propaganda will sway me, because having a bunker isn’t illegal, especially considering the nature of Israeli attacks against Palestinians for DECADES! Worse, the pictures are showing you are completely empty. You are completely taking and occupation military’s propaganda as gospel. That is the definition of naive.
It is not just bunker, it is consistent picture from operation of Hamas for years, and a witness statements, which is published in non-Israel sources.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte witness statements as given to the IDF and you took as gospel.
Are you being serious right now? I mean really?
Thought experiment for you, what is the difference between a Hamas bunker and a civilian shelter? Do you really believe Israel will honestly tell you? Remember, we’re talking about the same state sponsored terrorists who have literally bombed civilian convoys in the safe corridors they established
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte your problem is that no matter how you want to cut it, Israel is operating in the wrong from the start. They are the occupation force, resisting an occupation is LEGAL, and any nation under that circumstance would do the exact same thing.
That said, was Hamas’s actions against civilians on October 7th a terrorist attack, yes.
Has Israel engaged in terrorism against Palestinian civilians for decades, YES
Has Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, YES
I never said that resisting occupation is illegal. But we are talking about Hamas and sector Gaza here. There was no occupation of sector Gaza from 2005-ish.
You are saying that there is ethnic cleansing that happen in sector Gaza for years. Did you check the population of sector Gaza? The only ethnic cleansing that happened there was when Israel removed Jewish settlements. So let’s not through big scary words like “ethnic cleansing” when simple check of reality on the ground is totally against the meaning of the word. That includes today’s war where IDF goal is removing Hamas. Yes, there are civilian casualties - it happens in a war especially when Hamas uses civilian shield.
Now, with respect of Israel engaging “terrorism”, aren’t you confusing things? Was it, again, Hamas that was promised to destroy Israel and was shooting rockets into Israel and doing other terrorist acts? What Israel could possibly do when your neighbor shoots rockets at you with promise to destroy you? What? Again, Gaza Strip was NOT occupied. West Bank was, but would you de-occupy the West Bank when it might go the way Gaza Strip went with Hamas coming to power and following terrorist attacks for years?
Also, if it was Israel goal to do ethnic cleansing of sector Gaza at any point, than it would have done it - no Hamas resistance would be enough.
But let me put forward a simple truth, which you seem to ignore - there is no path to peace with Hamas in power. None. For the sake of Palestinians and everyone in the region, it must be removed. If you do not want the repeat of the same situation for both Israelites and Palestinian people with casualties in civilian population on both sides, Hamas has to go. There is just no alternative. No matter what crimes who did in the past - the path to the peace does not include Hamas staying in power.