• 0 Posts
Joined 1 year ago
Cake day: July 3rd, 2023


  • You have no more ability to get me to to vote Biden than you do to get a Trump voter to change their vote.

    Disagree. I can’t coerce neither of you, of course, and as you said I’m not entitled to anyone’s fault, but I’m still allowed to argue on and internet and try to make people see reason. And for that, I have a “leverage” on you that I don’t have on a Trump voter - the proposition that you don’t want a conservative dystopia.

    (Of course, if you do want a conservative dystopia consider my entire argument null and void)

  • That kind of blame is useless when trying to prevent gas station robberies. You need to blame the robbery on something the people who don’t want the station to be robbed could have done different, so that they could do it differently next time. Putting the blame on the robber, in this context, won’t do any good - the robber know exactly what they could have done to prevent the robbery (which is quite simple - just refrain from doing it) , but they won’t do it because they want to rob the store.

    Let’s pretend, just for a moment, that the point of the public discussion of the elections is to try and affect their results. You conclude the if Trump gets elected, it’ll be the fault of the people who voted for Trump. So you go to Trump voters and try to convince them that if Trump gets elected it’d be their fault but they can change that if they act now and refrain from voting.

    Say you’ve managed to convince them that this is the case. Will it affect their behavior? Will they say “I was going to vote for Trump because I want him as president, but now I realize that this would mean it’s my fault he gets elected so maybe I shouldn’t”?

    On the other hand, if you manage to convince a non voter on Biden’s side that it’d be their fault if they don’t vote and Trump gets elected - that’s potentially another vote for Biden, and enough of these can change the outcome.

  • Not ridiculous - just not sufficiently detailed. The people who didn’t vote are only to be blamed if the candidate they’d vote for if they did vote lost. Basically, if Biden (Trump) wins:

    • The people who voted for Trump (Biden) should not be blamed, because they already did what they could - they voted for Trump (Biden). It’s not like they could have voted “harder”.

    • The people who voted for Biden (Trump) should not be blamed either - they got what they wanted, and they were within their civilian right to do so.

    • The people who did not vote but would have voted for Biden (Trump) should not be blamed because just like the previous group - they got what they wanted. Also, even if they would have voted it wouldn’t have changed the outcome. There is an approach that say this should still be condemned because this was still a risk, but I believe one should not be so quick to condemn a bad practice when it succeeds because if you have to do that that means you were unable to find enough cases where the practice failed (and condemn it there) - which should compel you to consider whether this really is a bad practice.

      Also - we are talking about blaming Trump’s (Biden’s) loss on them, but they would have voted for Biden (Trump), which means that by not voting they gave half a vote to Trump (Biden) - so why blame them for not voting?

    • This leaves us with the people who did not vote but would have voted for Trump (Biden). These people are blamable - they did not get their preferred candidate, and they could have done something to increase the odds that he would have won.