Tante Regenbogen

Market socialist fist bump! 👊

I used to be a nationalist (not a nazi though), then an ancap. Now I am a socialist and have been so for about ten years now.

It is in the quote text. It says that public sector administration has to be religiously and politically neutral and any overt symbols or clothing of said convictions cannot be allowed by administrative staff.

I even link the entire statement of the court and you didn’t even bother to read it.

The ban is in public sector workplaces such as administration. It is not a ban religious symbols in the private sector. Also the EU court stated that making exemptions to accomodate the religious will complicate matters as it could become a slippery slope in terms of the guidelines expected of a secular and unbiased state.

I quote from the official statement of the ruling court:

"(1) Article 2(2)(a) of Council Directive 2000/78/EC of 27 November 2000 establishing a general framework for equal treatment in employment and occupation

must be interpreted to mean that a provision of a public body’s terms of employment which prohibits employees from wearing any visible sign of political, philosophical or religious belief in the workplace, with the aim of putting in place an entirely neutral administrative environment, does not constitute, with regard to employees who intend to exercise their freedom of religion and conscience through the visible wearing of a sign or an item of clothing with religious connotations, direct discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief, for the purposes of that directive, provided that that provision is applied in a general and undifferentiated way.

(2) Article 2(2)(b) of Directive 2000/78

must be interpreted to mean that a difference of treatment indirectly based on religion or belief arising from a provision of a public body’s terms of employment which prohibits employees from wearing any visible sign of political, philosophical or religious belief in the workplace may be justified by that body’s desire to put in place an entirely neutral administrative environment, provided, first, that that desire responds to a genuine need on the part of that body, which it is for that body to demonstrate; second, that that difference of treatment is appropriate for the purpose of ensuring that that desire is properly realised; and, third, that that prohibition is limited to what is strictly necessary."

Source: https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=273313&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=3078169

Certain restrictions in public sector workplaces arent oppression though. Especially the rules apply to everyone. Its just like certain dress codes are in place such as no street shoes, no revealing clothing and no visible tattoos. If people want to wear religious symbols outside of a government job, they are within their own right and I will protect that right. I also support people being allowed to wear religious symbols in private sector jobs as long as they abide by safety codes (there are forms of hijab and sikh head coverings that abide by safety standards for heightened danger workplaces).

But I am not a right winger. I believe in a secular society, public administration should be religiously neutral and that means no one gets special privileges. Also I have rarely ever seen muslim Africans wear headscarves aside from Somalis. Usually when I think of headscarves, I think of Turks, Chechens or people from the Arabian Peninsula.

No, you were the one brought up Arabs and Africans. You are the one stereotyping Arabs and Africans as the only Muslims who wear headscarves just to further your argument.

No one here has issues with Arabs or Africans. Headscarves and crosses are just inappropriate for public sector workplaces as they are supposed to be neutral and unbiased in secular societies.

Kosovars rarely wear hijabs though. Same goes for Bosnians and Albanians and many Lebanese, Egyptian and Syrian Muslims. So not it isnt about race.

I know enough women who were forced to wear hijab by their families and most of them nowadays have gotten away from their families and havent spoken to their families in years. Also one of the families tried to lure their daughter to Iran and another family were stopped at the airport after one of the women told border police that she was at the airport against her will.

A lot of women are totally forced to wear hijab.

Why should someone bring their religious beliefs to work?

I dont believe people should wear crosses or headscarves in public sector jobs. Public sector jobs are supposed to be neutral ideologically.