This is the right behind “Martha’s rule”, which is being introduced in the NHS, to ensure patients know they can ask for a second opinion, with[ the government providing funding to hospitals for posters and leaflets informing patients and their families.
Martha Mills died aged 13, after being admitted to King’s College Hospital, south London, in 2021, having injured her pancreas slipping on to the handlebars of her bike while cycling.
She later developed sepsis - but with better care, could have survived, an inquest found.
So they’re using the death of a child who was killed due to NHS incompetence to make trans people more likely to receive incompetent care or no care at all. Very cool and normal country.
make trans people more likely to receive incompetent care or no care at all
I don’t follow; why does placing transgender people in wards according to their sex mean they’re more likely to receive incompetent care or no care at all?
If a trans woman thinks there’s even the possibility that she’s going to be stuck in a ward with men then odds are she’s not going to go unless she feels like she’s about to die. This means preventable stuff spirals, which is one part of why trans people are more likely to die of preventable illnesses.
In addition for someone who is on hormones, if you treat them as their birth sex medically then you’re going to be missing signs of illness or interpreting normal things as a sign of illness. Ex: it’s extremely common for trans men on testosterone to have “high” hematocrit levels, which can be a symptom of all kinds of problems and a risk for other problems… if you compare it to the typical range for cis women. If you compare it to the levels of cis men, for most people it’s completely normal. Focusing on non-problems like that instead of what brought someone in is going to result in a lower quality of care and make someone less likely to seek care in the future.
Your not going to stop taking a medical history of someone just because they are on ward A or B. Your second paragraph is nonsense. Every patient has to be treated individually and many people are on unique combinations of medications.
its not nonsense, its a well documented part of trans discrimination. trans people are commonly treated as if they are cis, and many doctors just don’t have the kind of awareness of HRT’s effects that you seem to think is commonplace. like, more than half of trans people have experienced medical discrimination. trans people are routinely confronted with medical professionals that refuse to acknowledge their medical histories. trans people have quantifiably worse physical health outcomes even when they do get care. i have not met a single trans person who hasn’t experienced at least some kind of barrier to care. doctors refusing to perform mammograms, doctors who haven’t even heard of HRT, doctors turning trans people away at emergency rooms. there is tons of data out there about this problem that you’re refusing to believe even exists.
Competently treating trans patients is more than knowing what medications someone is on. I know trans people that have had doctors strongly push medical detransition for having minor temporary health problems completely unrelated to their HRT. Immediately hitting the ‘medically detransition’ button every time one value goes out of range on one blood test isn’t competent care. Google ‘trans broken arm syndrome’. This stuff all has an effect on whether or not trans people seek care and how competent the care they receive is. If you set up in the minds of medical professionals that trans people are ‘actually’ their birth sex then you’re setting trans people up for receiving bad care, period.
Is there a big gameshow-style wheel in Downing Street labeled “who to shit on today”?
“We need to make sure that we put women in the men’s ward and men in the women’s ward. That will make people feel safer and result in fairer care” fucking transphobe terf island I hate it here
transgender people, whose gender identity differs from their biological sex, may be provided single rooms, where appropriate
As if that will actually happen. There’s no magic single room tree :)
Disabled toilets exist
Incorrect, they are single sex wards not single gender wards. Females should be on a Female ward and Males on a Male ward which is correct if wards are decided based on sex and not gender.
“I’m going to reply to the trans person under the premise that they don’t understand sex and gender”
The sentiment of my comment was a lot deeper than “conflating sex and gender”. The subtext was that single-sex wards where you are sorted by your AGAB are not trans (or intersex) inclusive, even if technically valid sorting criteria.
transgender people, whose gender identity differs from their biological sex, may be provided single rooms, where appropriate
So you consider “putting those weird other people in their own rooms away from the rest of us normals” to be inclusive? Its 1 step better than forcing them to be in a room full of people of the opposite gender, sure, but it sure as hell isn’t inclusive. Anyway, this conversation is over a week stale, I don’t care for it anymore. Have a nice life!
such a stupid thing to whine about. what if they got surgery and they are externally identical to a cis woman, do they still need to go in the ward for men? just let people be.
I was correcting a factual mistake, the conflation of sex and gender in this case, far from whining.
That seems reasonable. I’m a transsexual female with female hormones and female genitalia, I was AMAB and I will be in the female ward along with my fellow females, thanks!
You are not assigned male, you fall in the sex category male at birth. Sex is immutable and cannot be changed unlike gender, therefore in wards based on sex you will be put in a male ward. Unless as the article lays out you get your own room, which is the likely and most preferred outcome for all inpatients.
If you knew as much as you try to put on about biological sex, you’d know that’s its far, far more complicated than “male or female” and there are plenty of people who are assigned one thing at birth which doesn’t factually align with their biological sex. So yes, it is an assignment.
I fail to see how a rational inpatient would give the slightest fuck if the girl a bed over from them had a cock when they were born so i dont know what preferred outcome they have in this, and I can speak as a trans person to the fact that it would not be my preferred outcome to be singled out and put in my own room. I’d choose it over being in the male ward, but its not my “preferred outcome”.
What world do you live in where spare rooms on the NHS are widely available? Because I’d like to go there, since it certainly isn’t reality.
You are not assigned male, you fall in the sex category male at birth
I’m not at birth though anymore am I? I’m not a man and for most purposes I’m not male anymore either. Defining sex by chromosomes only when dictating societal policy which is very much not about chromosomes when it comes to sex segregation is overly reductive and it is completely absurd to place women who transitioned decades ago and have very little physically in common with the male sex alongside the male sex for literally no reason.
The only motivation for this absurdity is to hurt and ostracize trans people.
You
My NHS sex marker says F and has since I’ve had an NHS number and I never even changed my name from a very obviously male one. It’s almost as if this whole charade is pretty absurd and trans women being women and for the most part female is self-evident.
This was promised back in 2010
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/15/mixed-sex-hospital-ward-fines
Governments have been struggling for 15 years to end the sharing of wards by men and women. Lansley said in August that it would end in all but accident and emergency and intensive care units by the end of this year.
The only reason mixed wards happen is because demand has grown but funding has not. The NHS is being crippled on multiple fronts by chronic lack of resources.
Right, because screeching about trans, non-binary and intersex people as if they’re to blame for a decade & a half of Tory asset-wrecking deathly malfeasance will totally magic this extra NHS capacity into reality.
(Ok, they didn’t mention the latter two, because they never do, but we all know how it goes).
Tbh I think staff on the wards will be able to ignore this, as the demand for care far exceeds availability, but they shouldn’t fucking have to.
Yeah, which results in transgender patients not seeking necessary medical care. Fuck you, Tories, and fuck you, NHS.
transgender people, whose gender identity differs from their biological sex, may be provided single rooms, where appropriate
Why split things like bathrooms or hospital wards by sex or gender anyway? Any solution that validates trans people while still separating genders is only going to be a bandage solution at best, as it doesn’t solve the underlying issue of sexism “I can’t be in the same room as someone of another sex/gender, that would be terrible!” Like what? Are we trying to accommodate religious idiots instead of trans people or something?
No, it’s to stop putting men in the same wards as women in case the men rape the women or harass them. It’s about protecting women.
No, it’s to make women who assume they will be raped feel safe. Men don’t just rape women because they’re in the same room. They don’t change gender to improve their rape opportunities either.
Oh no no, if I’m even in the same room as a woman alone as a cis male I’m obligated to rape a woman
/s
This shit is so blatantly and openly misandrist, I can’t even imagine growing up as a boy hearing this rhetoric thrown around how you’re just a monster and you can’t prove otherwise, spread by what you would assume at first are kind old ladies on the street.
so, the only way to address the problem of sexual violence in hospitals is just to divide the population in two? this is just like the bathroom bullshit. if you’re assuming that trans women are rapists, you are a transphobe. if you’re assuming that sex-segregated wards are a useful deterrent to rape, you’re an idiot. the thing stopping people from hurting patients in the hospital is the hospital. the staff, the doors, the nurses, the help buttons beside each bed, the check-ins by doctors and nurses.
Trans women aren’t men so that’s irrelevant here.
There is a reason why hospitals have “sex” instead of “gender” on their paperwork because gender is fucking useless now
I always say female anyway and so do all trans women I know. I specify “biological” if asked because I’m not a cyborg either. This isn’t some gotcha you think it is and idc what other dogwhistles you invent. Cope and seethe.
Didn’t ask, don’t care 🤓
Biologically trans women ARE men. You obviously cared somewhere along the line till it comes to something that actually matters
Biologically trans women are trans women, they have very little in common with cis men other than chromosomes, they’re not the same as cis women entirely but have far more in common with them.
The average trans woman has had her T levels nuked for decades, usually below cis women levels and E levels same as a cis woman, their bodies are completely different including their genitalia most of the time.
As far as the actual medical truth of the matter we are not cis men, I don’t have to worry about testicular, prostate or penile cancers but I do have to worry quite a bit more than a cis man about breast cancer for example.
You obviously cared somewhere along the line till it comes to something that actually matters
What are you even trying to get across here?? lmao
Pointing out your hypocrisy when it comes to the safety of people, women in this case.
Well they aren’t the same as normal women either, so what are they?
Trans women. It’s in the name innit.
They should be stressing cyber sex with all the infectious diseases in wards these days.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
For example, same-sex accommodation rights, which have existed for years, can and are breached where there is a clinically urgent need to admit and treat a patient and do not extend to areas such as critical care or accident and emergency.
“By putting this in the NHS Constitution, we’re highlighting the importance of balancing the rights and needs of all patients, to make a healthcare system that is faster, simpler and fairer to all.”
“The confusion between ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ in official policies like the NHS Constitution is what has enabled women’s rights to be trampled over in the name of transgender identities,” she said.
Martha Mills died aged 13, after being admitted to King’s College Hospital, south London, in 2021, having injured her pancreas slipping on to the handlebars of her bike while cycling.
Labour’s shadow health secretary Wes Streeting said: "Rights on paper are worthless unless they are delivered in practice.
If you are reading this page and can’t see the form you will need to visit the mobile version of the BBC website to submit your question or comment or you can email us at HaveYourSay@bbc.co.uk.
The original article contains 595 words, the summary contains 189 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
How is this not common sense? It’s a matter of woman’s safety, like avoiding a repeat of Isla Bryson
transgender people, whose gender identity differs from their biological sex, may be provided single rooms, where appropriate
Fair enough
so should we segregate our hospitals too? i’m sure you could find some examples of interracial violence if you cared to look. maybe the poor people should get their own ward, we all know the poors are more likely to be criminals! the argument you’re using right now is one that has been used against minority groups since antiquity. all people are capable of violence. that you focus only on the violence of a single case, and use that to justify discrimination? that is not “common sense”. it is prejudice.
