I have my first PSL meeting on Sunday, I’m really anxious (hello social anxiety) but I’m bringing my husband. Organize or die is what I’m thinking! I’m sorry your post brought out miserable people
Capitalism does not need to go. Croneyism needs to go. Our government has for decades been catering to the corporations that run America, from Amazon to the Railroad. They helped these massive corporations consolidate their markets by regulating small and new players out of existence. They take their money and make sure they don’t lose their spots on top.
That’s rich from a group calling everyone a Nazi in the last few months unless they fully agree with you on Gaza, and I’m a leftist and one that’s been at this a while, and you Americans are toxic as fuck. You don’t perceive that we around the world who are actually leftists are aghast at the stupidity of your country.
The right was always toxic, but the left really went with it this election too. Nobody was good enough for anyone and nobody was leftist enough for everyone. And if you saw someone you thought was less left, you shouted “Nazi” at them. Not just at the right wingers, but your own allies on the left.
You have every right to be frustrated and angry, and if it helps you to direct that anger at me, then go for it. I want you to know that even though it feels like there are so many people against you, there are people around the world you’ve never met that are pulling for you. I sincerely wish you the best, and I hope that you’re able to find happiness.
Nobody was good enough for anyone and nobody was leftist enough for everyone
Very true. Everybody is concerned about how right they are through highlighting how wrong whoever else is. This era of profilicity will exterminate left thought
If you really actually cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let the racist fascist through. Cause now Palestine is done.
You guys are mad cause neither candidate agreed with you on one issue? Are you new to politics and elections? Last two elections I’ve had to vote for shitty neo liberals, cause I knew the other option was much much worse. Sometimes you have to eat shit and like it
Nailed it. The Dems didn’t fail the voters, the voters failed themselves. Some fell in love with a con man and some sat on their purity pedestals and refused to help. America is full of all kinds of idiots.
oh so sanctimonious “purity pedestals” like, Stop abetting an exterminationist campaign
It was only broadly popular with most of the country and polled well in swing states; thank goodness party leadership had the stones to stick to their values and loose on this issue. Nobody to blame here but people who didn’t make campaign choices and do not have access to the levers of power!
Why do liberals have to get in the way and make enemies of us? We’ll have to go through you all then.
Leftism isn’t a stranger to being attacked on all sides and being pushed to the margins, but we’re still here generation after generation even as the most rich and powerful nations organize their militaries and media against us.
psst you don’t need to remind them they’re assholes that explicitly. they know. they’re happy to discuss the shades of supporting a genocide and why its okay to shove the few under the bus to save the many. Never mind that saving the few would have saved more of the many in the long run.
The DNC isn’t entitled to Americans votes. They lost us and lost folks to the Republicans because they promised to fix the economy and are actually talking to people directly. The DNC is fucking dead to me.
I voted Kamala but I knew she didn’t stand a chance. I knew we were cooked when it was Biden/Kamala
Thank you for choosing Kamala even though you didn’t want to. We’re in this mess because too many people were the cartoon character somebody posted above.
That suggestion would only be as bigoted as calling criticism from an El Salvadoran bigoted. I’m a white male American and I say America is full of idiots. That was how Trump got into the White House to begin with, and it’s why he’s going back. It’s not either party’s fault, it’s that the majority of Americans are just stupid.
You are giving way too much of a pass to a lot of evil people and their propaganda by blaming it only on the voters.
I’m not completely disagreeing with you though. I’m a white dude in America too and the ignorance and gullibility of many of our citizens is astounding.
Lets say you have a neighbor and every time you invite them over for tea they shit on your carpet.
Do you continue inviting them over? if your answer is no, well now you understand why a large portion of the american electorate didn’t show up to vote again. the democrats need to stop shitting on our carpet. for the record we don’t invite the republicans over either. they shit everywhere.
You havent sent signals strong enough to demonstrate you wouldn’t shit on the carpet again. Trump, well, when he gets close to burning the house down again we’ll probably show up with the firetrucks. probably. depends on how much hes threatening our local communities. if hes smart he wont
Am I saying that criticism from the outside world is a bad thing? No. What I’m saying is that I could very easily point at bad things about any country - it solves absolutely nothing.
Leftists can definitely be as stupid as rightists, and we’re seeing it in full technicolor in this thread. “Waaaahhh, there weren’t any good options. I should be able to click on something perfect!”
news flash: he, like many other leftists are welcome to say whatever they want. doesnt mean we give a shit what he says. we often agree with him on things and support them. but ‘bernie says blah’ only gets your foot in the door for about 3 seconds until we look into what he said. if the reasoning behind it is wanting we reject it.
If you think bernie represents the left, hell if you think anyone represents the left you’re sorely mistaken.
that being said: many leftists told you exactly what you needed to hear the entire year you needed to hear it.
the genocide is not okay.
it will impact our votes.
a few of us have literally been screaming it for the last 2 months in the public sphere as you’re all aware.
if you think we needed to shift our position. you were very sadly mistaken. both morally and strategically. as you’re now witnessing. We didn’t go out and pressure our friends for harris, why? because harris didn’t budge and you spent more time telling us how your grand ‘lesser evil’ strategy was the optimal behavior, even more than tell harris to fuck off on genocide!
guess it wasnt so optimal since you know, people tuned you out and you lost. oops. You see the thing is a lot of leftists are actually very quiet. they spend their time with their friends enjoying life and as a network we signal to each other when its important to vote. we did that in 2020 for biden and we conditioned it on him having a single term.
Biden, as we expected, went counter to his promises on a number of factors. so we didn’t quietly send our signals to our group. My roommate and I for example were talking last week about the election and they were like ‘looks like another 4 years of trump, and I was like ‘yup, gonna suck’’. we both still voted. but we didn’t do what we often would do and be like ‘yeah harris is worth getting the gang together and disrupting our shit to get our networks of apathetic voting friend out’
why? hand waves the last 4 years and the last 6 months in particular. genocide is not a stance you shift on.
News flash, no candidate will ever court your vote since you are a fringe lunatic who doesn’t understand how anything works. Congrats, you and your fellow “leftists” enabled Trump. Spin it however you want, but the bullshit caring about Palestine is just that… bullshit. By pushing 3rd party votes, or not voting at all, you directly helped the Trump campaign.
You realize all of you are capitalists right? Unless you live in the woods without a job or SIN and away from money, you’re part of the capitalist system. You may wish to be a green army jacket wearing commies but you’re not. Americans no longer have a sense of reality.
“All capitalists are right wingers!” You guys became what you criticized, every bit as reactionary, hateful and living in a black and white world as the trumpers. I personally have never experienced the level of racism and intolerance from the left that I saw this election. I’m native who has always been anti fascist, I never hung out with or been friends with right wing weirdos, yet I’ve been called a Nazi cause I don’t agree with everything you guys say. White kids calling people of color Nazis, that’s where the American left is at.
No I am not a capitalist, I am working class. Any member of the working class calling themselves a capitalist is delusional. I exist within a capitalist system and therefore I engage with it or starve. Should I starve for my ideals and nothing more?
When I say all capitalist are right wingers I mean that because the economic structure is the basis of seperation in real politics. The left is socialist and the right is capitalist simple as. The only reason liberals believe they are on the left is because the US jailed and executed communist and anarchists while dismantling all of their party structures both in the US and outside of the US. You believe you are on the left because the ruling class succeeded in eliminating their only real opposition domestically. The Democratic party is left of the Republican party but it is still firmly on the right and always has been.
I’m not some white kid calling you a nazi. I’m not stupid enough to believe that’s what you are. More than likely you are a person who sees all the problems in America and doesn’t fall for the reactionary minority scapegoating of Republicans but has never been given a material basis for understanding political economy. There has never been a party that gave you material reasons for why things are the way that they are and how they can be fixed in concrete terms. The best Democrats offer is vague statements about how things will get better but also how things are already totally great, scapegoating a foreign power, or pointing out how awful their opponent is.
There are reasons for why America is in the state it is in, these reasons are known and understood. There are solutions that we know will work to fix these problems with our society that we have seen empirically proof for. You can learn the reasons for these problems, how we can solve them, and why the solutions work. It is not “too complex” you do not need a degree for it. You must only read.
This is what got me started. You don’t need to watch it, but it changed my life and may help you understand my perspective. Yellow Parenti
The Democratic party has failed us. We need an actual workers party and we have about 3 years to build it.
Join PSL if you have not already
I have my first PSL meeting on Sunday, I’m really anxious (hello social anxiety) but I’m bringing my husband. Organize or die is what I’m thinking! I’m sorry your post brought out miserable people
Capitalism does not need to go. Croneyism needs to go. Our government has for decades been catering to the corporations that run America, from Amazon to the Railroad. They helped these massive corporations consolidate their markets by regulating small and new players out of existence. They take their money and make sure they don’t lose their spots on top.
You guys don’t deserve it. This election proved to me that you’re leftists can be every bit as hateful as your right
Yeah the people advocating for the end of a genocide and social healthcare are the hateful ones 💀
They’re not hateful, just too stupid to face the reality that one of the two viable choices they had was clearly much better than the other.
When they want to end it with bloodshed, yes. Yes they are.
Welcome to reality
It’s easy to paint a huge group of people with a broad brush, but that’s exactly the mindset that got us here.
That’s rich from a group calling everyone a Nazi in the last few months unless they fully agree with you on Gaza, and I’m a leftist and one that’s been at this a while, and you Americans are toxic as fuck. You don’t perceive that we around the world who are actually leftists are aghast at the stupidity of your country.
The right was always toxic, but the left really went with it this election too. Nobody was good enough for anyone and nobody was leftist enough for everyone. And if you saw someone you thought was less left, you shouted “Nazi” at them. Not just at the right wingers, but your own allies on the left.
You have every right to be frustrated and angry, and if it helps you to direct that anger at me, then go for it. I want you to know that even though it feels like there are so many people against you, there are people around the world you’ve never met that are pulling for you. I sincerely wish you the best, and I hope that you’re able to find happiness.
Very true. Everybody is concerned about how right they are through highlighting how wrong whoever else is. This era of profilicity will exterminate left thought
what’s a little genocide for a seasoned leftist? cultures come and go. it’s just genocide.
If you really actually cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let the racist fascist through. Cause now Palestine is done.
You guys are mad cause neither candidate agreed with you on one issue? Are you new to politics and elections? Last two elections I’ve had to vote for shitty neo liberals, cause I knew the other option was much much worse. Sometimes you have to eat shit and like it
Nailed it. The Dems didn’t fail the voters, the voters failed themselves. Some fell in love with a con man and some sat on their purity pedestals and refused to help. America is full of all kinds of idiots.
oh so sanctimonious “purity pedestals” like, Stop abetting an exterminationist campaign
It was only broadly popular with most of the country and polled well in swing states; thank goodness party leadership had the stones to stick to their values and loose on this issue. Nobody to blame here but people who didn’t make campaign choices and do not have access to the levers of power!
Just recently Israel said they will not allow Palestinians to return to northern Gaza. That’s ethnic cleansing at best. Biden is still in charge.
Are we expecting perfect? Is stopping a genocide perfect? It’s the bare fucking minimum you clowns. Stop giving Netenyahu a blank cheque
The Dems definitely failed us friend. They ran a shit campaign and everyone knows it
Why do liberals have to get in the way and make enemies of us? We’ll have to go through you all then.
Leftism isn’t a stranger to being attacked on all sides and being pushed to the margins, but we’re still here generation after generation even as the most rich and powerful nations organize their militaries and media against us.
Because here the person talks about their frustration and you’re blaming them. Don’t be like that. Empathize!
I think you need to reread the thread, where did the blame begin? I’m getting tired of the high road.
Sure, kiddo
Keep chasing that center as your country descends into fascism. It’s easier than thinking for yourself
psst you don’t need to remind them they’re assholes that explicitly. they know. they’re happy to discuss the shades of supporting a genocide and why its okay to shove the few under the bus to save the many. Never mind that saving the few would have saved more of the many in the long run.
The DNC isn’t entitled to Americans votes. They lost us and lost folks to the Republicans because they promised to fix the economy and are actually talking to people directly. The DNC is fucking dead to me.
I voted Kamala but I knew she didn’t stand a chance. I knew we were cooked when it was Biden/Kamala
Thank you for choosing Kamala even though you didn’t want to. We’re in this mess because too many people were the cartoon character somebody posted above.
No, two people were cartoon characters. you failed to realize one of them was harris.
You’re from El Salvador. Should I suggest that El Salvadorians deserve MS-13 because you’re stupid brown people who can’t get away from drugs?
No, you bigoted piece of shit.
That suggestion would only be as bigoted as calling criticism from an El Salvadoran bigoted. I’m a white male American and I say America is full of idiots. That was how Trump got into the White House to begin with, and it’s why he’s going back. It’s not either party’s fault, it’s that the majority of Americans are just stupid.
You are giving way too much of a pass to a lot of evil people and their propaganda by blaming it only on the voters.
I’m not completely disagreeing with you though. I’m a white dude in America too and the ignorance and gullibility of many of our citizens is astounding.
Lets say you have a neighbor and every time you invite them over for tea they shit on your carpet.
Do you continue inviting them over? if your answer is no, well now you understand why a large portion of the american electorate didn’t show up to vote again. the democrats need to stop shitting on our carpet. for the record we don’t invite the republicans over either. they shit everywhere.
You havent sent signals strong enough to demonstrate you wouldn’t shit on the carpet again. Trump, well, when he gets close to burning the house down again we’ll probably show up with the firetrucks. probably. depends on how much hes threatening our local communities. if hes smart he wont
Am I saying that criticism from the outside world is a bad thing? No. What I’m saying is that I could very easily point at bad things about any country - it solves absolutely nothing.
Leftists can definitely be as stupid as rightists, and we’re seeing it in full technicolor in this thread. “Waaaahhh, there weren’t any good options. I should be able to click on something perfect!”
I think you’re confused. we said ‘not genocidal.’ if that makes a candidate perfect dear fucking god how low the bar has fallen.
And if they really cared about what Bernie has to say they would have listened to him and voted Harris
news flash: he, like many other leftists are welcome to say whatever they want. doesnt mean we give a shit what he says. we often agree with him on things and support them. but ‘bernie says blah’ only gets your foot in the door for about 3 seconds until we look into what he said. if the reasoning behind it is wanting we reject it.
If you think bernie represents the left, hell if you think anyone represents the left you’re sorely mistaken.
that being said: many leftists told you exactly what you needed to hear the entire year you needed to hear it.
if you think we needed to shift our position. you were very sadly mistaken. both morally and strategically. as you’re now witnessing. We didn’t go out and pressure our friends for harris, why? because harris didn’t budge and you spent more time telling us how your grand ‘lesser evil’ strategy was the optimal behavior, even more than tell harris to fuck off on genocide!
guess it wasnt so optimal since you know, people tuned you out and you lost. oops. You see the thing is a lot of leftists are actually very quiet. they spend their time with their friends enjoying life and as a network we signal to each other when its important to vote. we did that in 2020 for biden and we conditioned it on him having a single term.
Biden, as we expected, went counter to his promises on a number of factors. so we didn’t quietly send our signals to our group. My roommate and I for example were talking last week about the election and they were like ‘looks like another 4 years of trump, and I was like ‘yup, gonna suck’’. we both still voted. but we didn’t do what we often would do and be like ‘yeah harris is worth getting the gang together and disrupting our shit to get our networks of apathetic voting friend out’
why? hand waves the last 4 years and the last 6 months in particular. genocide is not a stance you shift on.
News flash, no candidate will ever court your vote since you are a fringe lunatic who doesn’t understand how anything works. Congrats, you and your fellow “leftists” enabled Trump. Spin it however you want, but the bullshit caring about Palestine is just that… bullshit. By pushing 3rd party votes, or not voting at all, you directly helped the Trump campaign.
Congrats comrade, you got what you wanted.
Congrats your candidate lost shrug. Whats the definition of insanity again?
Bernie is not a leftist
Oh so he’s a right winger?
Yes, all capitalists are
You realize all of you are capitalists right? Unless you live in the woods without a job or SIN and away from money, you’re part of the capitalist system. You may wish to be a green army jacket wearing commies but you’re not. Americans no longer have a sense of reality.
“All capitalists are right wingers!” You guys became what you criticized, every bit as reactionary, hateful and living in a black and white world as the trumpers. I personally have never experienced the level of racism and intolerance from the left that I saw this election. I’m native who has always been anti fascist, I never hung out with or been friends with right wing weirdos, yet I’ve been called a Nazi cause I don’t agree with everything you guys say. White kids calling people of color Nazis, that’s where the American left is at.
No I am not a capitalist, I am working class. Any member of the working class calling themselves a capitalist is delusional. I exist within a capitalist system and therefore I engage with it or starve. Should I starve for my ideals and nothing more?
When I say all capitalist are right wingers I mean that because the economic structure is the basis of seperation in real politics. The left is socialist and the right is capitalist simple as. The only reason liberals believe they are on the left is because the US jailed and executed communist and anarchists while dismantling all of their party structures both in the US and outside of the US. You believe you are on the left because the ruling class succeeded in eliminating their only real opposition domestically. The Democratic party is left of the Republican party but it is still firmly on the right and always has been.
I’m not some white kid calling you a nazi. I’m not stupid enough to believe that’s what you are. More than likely you are a person who sees all the problems in America and doesn’t fall for the reactionary minority scapegoating of Republicans but has never been given a material basis for understanding political economy. There has never been a party that gave you material reasons for why things are the way that they are and how they can be fixed in concrete terms. The best Democrats offer is vague statements about how things will get better but also how things are already totally great, scapegoating a foreign power, or pointing out how awful their opponent is.
There are reasons for why America is in the state it is in, these reasons are known and understood. There are solutions that we know will work to fix these problems with our society that we have seen empirically proof for. You can learn the reasons for these problems, how we can solve them, and why the solutions work. It is not “too complex” you do not need a degree for it. You must only read.
This is what got me started. You don’t need to watch it, but it changed my life and may help you understand my perspective. Yellow Parenti
That’s a solid take.
Far left and far right are just “far”.
Far from truth, reality or the burden of existing in a social system with people they don’t agree with.
This makes them mad and they traded their honor and honesty to pwn the libs.
The only difference between tankies and the magats is a red hat made in a Chinese sweatshop.
Running to the mythical center-right just failed spectacularly.
Democrats’ only tactic failed.
What failed was millions of people deciding that walking across broken glass barefoot was better than wearing shoes they didn’t like.
This country is full of fucking idiots.