Tought topic, but Idk, if a 13 year old is a “serious offender”, something has to be done. The population must be protected from those psychopaths. And if it takes imprisonment, well - so be it. That child will never have a normal life, I get it, but if a 13 year old murders or rapes someone, I’d argue he’s too far gone anyways and in that case, the protection of the population is more important than rehabilitation of a psychopath.
Parents must also be investigated and charged for their children’s crimes, if appropriate.
How comes prison is so often seen as the only way to deal with children commiting severe criminal offenses? Depending on the reason for it, there is a myriad of other options, from psychatric care to specialized education programmes.
Because locking them away is the only way to prevent them from harming others. I’m not saying they shouldn’t get treatment - but please in prison while locked up.
Nope, definetly not in prison. Prisons are dreading places, and juvenile delinquents usually need something else. Prison has negative effects on the trajectories of juvenile delinquents. Nobody gets better in prison.
Now, mind I do not argue to just send them to therapy twice a month and let them live their regular life. I am arguing juvenile delinquents need specialized surroundings, facilities tailored to the needs of young people from often horrible backgrounds, the right supervision etc. But prison will damn them for life.
Prison has negative effects on the trajectories of juvenile delinquents. Nobody gets better in prison.
That’s not the point. I’ll be very honest with you, if you kill, rape or otherwise harm someone in such a brutal way that negatively impacts someone’s life in such a horrendous way or even ends it, idc what’s happening to you. I don’t care if the rest of your life is going to be shit because 13 years in prison when you’re 13 will definitely ruin it, idc if you get any therapeutic help, idc what’s happening to you in general. My top priority in this situation is to keep the rest of the population safe from you. And if prison is what it takes, prison is what you get.
Would I prefer some kind of prison for young people with at least an option to get a better life after your sentence? Yeah. But if no such facilities exist in sweden, I’d dump them into a regular prison. As I said above - the protection of the remaining population is of the highest priority, and you gave up your basic human rights when you decided to end someone’s life. Off to the slammer you go.
@realitaetsverlust@CyberEgg
“My top priority in this situation is to keep the rest of the population safe from you.”
And prison is the worst possible place to do this, as others have said, as they will be worse when they get out. I understand it (and would once have agreed), but in the bigger picture it’s a simplistic, shortsighted, knee-jerk revenge reflex with worse outcomes.
And prison is the worst possible place to do this, as others have said, as they will be worse when they get out
You guys keep looking at this issue from the standpoint of an american, but you’re completely forgetting that this is NOT america, this is sweden. Swedish prisons (or northern europe in general) have a MUCH higher focus on rehabilitation than punishment. Sweden only has a reoffending rate of like 25%, not the 80% you got in that fucked up country over there.
Swedish prisons have a reoffending rate of 25%. So yes - many do.
That is incomplete data. We have no information how the reoffending rate would be without prison, there are other factors influencing the reoffending rate (in the US for example, it is really hard to get employed after serving prison time, something that is much easier in Sweden), you don’t get out of prison unscathed, and is that the reoffending rate of adults, kids, both…?
We have no information how the reoffending rate would be without prison
It would certainly be higher, because the only thing that stops many people from doing crime IS prison, and if you get away with it once, you’ll do it again. It’s basic human behavior. You don’t need data for that, just as you don’t need data for “is the stove hot when I turn it on for 2 minutes”.
you don’t get out of prison unscathed
Neither does the person you raped, beat up or outright murdered.
and is that the reoffending rate of adults, kids, both…?
That is the adult reoffending rate because there currently is no jail time for teens from what I could find. But I’d say that the reoffending rate would be around the same for teenagers. There’s no reason why adults should reoffend less or more than teenagers after prison.
There are psychiatric institutions that are specialized for helping and treating people, while keeping them locked away from the public.
Locking 13-year-olds up with adult criminals in a normal prison will make sure they’re more dangerous when they ever get out again.
It’s not just that they are too far gone, they are still in their formative years and are often exposed to organized crime. When you’re 13, you’re still forming your identity and sense of morals, for example. What happens to that when you’re hanging around organized criminals and you’re 13? They’re gonna be even more gone by the time they’re 20.
Tought topic, but Idk, if a 13 year old is a “serious offender”, something has to be done. The population must be protected from those psychopaths. And if it takes imprisonment, well - so be it. That child will never have a normal life, I get it, but if a 13 year old murders or rapes someone, I’d argue he’s too far gone anyways and in that case, the protection of the population is more important than rehabilitation of a psychopath.
Parents must also be investigated and charged for their children’s crimes, if appropriate.
How comes prison is so often seen as the only way to deal with children commiting severe criminal offenses? Depending on the reason for it, there is a myriad of other options, from psychatric care to specialized education programmes.
Because locking them away is the only way to prevent them from harming others. I’m not saying they shouldn’t get treatment - but please in prison while locked up.
Nope, definetly not in prison. Prisons are dreading places, and juvenile delinquents usually need something else. Prison has negative effects on the trajectories of juvenile delinquents. Nobody gets better in prison.
Now, mind I do not argue to just send them to therapy twice a month and let them live their regular life. I am arguing juvenile delinquents need specialized surroundings, facilities tailored to the needs of young people from often horrible backgrounds, the right supervision etc. But prison will damn them for life.
That’s not the point. I’ll be very honest with you, if you kill, rape or otherwise harm someone in such a brutal way that negatively impacts someone’s life in such a horrendous way or even ends it, idc what’s happening to you. I don’t care if the rest of your life is going to be shit because 13 years in prison when you’re 13 will definitely ruin it, idc if you get any therapeutic help, idc what’s happening to you in general. My top priority in this situation is to keep the rest of the population safe from you. And if prison is what it takes, prison is what you get.
Would I prefer some kind of prison for young people with at least an option to get a better life after your sentence? Yeah. But if no such facilities exist in sweden, I’d dump them into a regular prison. As I said above - the protection of the remaining population is of the highest priority, and you gave up your basic human rights when you decided to end someone’s life. Off to the slammer you go.
@realitaetsverlust @CyberEgg
“My top priority in this situation is to keep the rest of the population safe from you.”
And prison is the worst possible place to do this, as others have said, as they will be worse when they get out. I understand it (and would once have agreed), but in the bigger picture it’s a simplistic, shortsighted, knee-jerk revenge reflex with worse outcomes.
You guys keep looking at this issue from the standpoint of an american, but you’re completely forgetting that this is NOT america, this is sweden. Swedish prisons (or northern europe in general) have a MUCH higher focus on rehabilitation than punishment. Sweden only has a reoffending rate of like 25%, not the 80% you got in that fucked up country over there.
First, what @Quantillion@mstdn.io says. Maybe I should rephrase: nobody gets better when someone goes to prison.
Second:
Then Sweden (and every other country) should build such facilities.
Swedish prisons have a reoffending rate of 25%. So yes - many do.
Long term solution: yes. But you need a short term solution aswell to get rid of the immediate problem.
That is incomplete data. We have no information how the reoffending rate would be without prison, there are other factors influencing the reoffending rate (in the US for example, it is really hard to get employed after serving prison time, something that is much easier in Sweden), you don’t get out of prison unscathed, and is that the reoffending rate of adults, kids, both…?
Ah, the classic when you don’t like the data.
It would certainly be higher, because the only thing that stops many people from doing crime IS prison, and if you get away with it once, you’ll do it again. It’s basic human behavior. You don’t need data for that, just as you don’t need data for “is the stove hot when I turn it on for 2 minutes”.
Neither does the person you raped, beat up or outright murdered.
That is the adult reoffending rate because there currently is no jail time for teens from what I could find. But I’d say that the reoffending rate would be around the same for teenagers. There’s no reason why adults should reoffend less or more than teenagers after prison.
There are psychiatric institutions that are specialized for helping and treating people, while keeping them locked away from the public.
Locking 13-year-olds up with adult criminals in a normal prison will make sure they’re more dangerous when they ever get out again.
It’s not just that they are too far gone, they are still in their formative years and are often exposed to organized crime. When you’re 13, you’re still forming your identity and sense of morals, for example. What happens to that when you’re hanging around organized criminals and you’re 13? They’re gonna be even more gone by the time they’re 20.