(This is an extended version of one of the most widely re-shared post I have ever written on Mastodon.)

The new “Threads” app by Meta (Facebook) is just the old 4-E strategy strategy to destroy Mastodon:

  1. Embrace:

    (what they are doing now) launch a competing but compatible service with that of Mastodon. The vast majority of users, most of whom don’t care about the privacy and intimacy of the Mastodon network, will go with the brand with the most name recognition. The number of users already signed up for Threads shows this to be true.

  2. Extend:

    make their service appear to be better with features like search, which they have the resources to do, but the rest of the Mastodon network does not. Also include features for tracking and advertising, sell this as a good thing, “a better place to grow your personal brand, your business.” When people think about joining either Facebook Threads or some other Mastodon instance, which will they choose? “Oh, Threads users can also talk with Mastodon users so they are basically the same? Well, why not just use Threads then?” The one with the most name recognition will always win.

    Then comes the blogs and YouTube videos about, “I tried Threads, Bluesky, Mastodon, Pixelfed, each for 1 month, here is what I learned” type videos in which the author decides Threads or Bluesky is best because they have better features and you don’t have to decide which instance to join.

  3. Extinguish:

    after attracting a critical mass of users large enough to decimate the user base of the competing Mastodon network, and temporarily making appear to have better features like search, quietly remove compatibility with the Mastodon network.

    This might effect only 10% of Mastodon users because the other 90% will be on Threads. Then people will think, “who cares if we lose contact with that tiny minority of old Mastodon users, they should have just joined Threads by now anyways, they still can. It has search, and more people voted for it with their patronage. And you don’t have to think about what instance to join, its easier!”

    At this point, people begin to wonder what the point of Mastodon even is.

  4. Enshittification:

    without any real competition to keep people from leaving for an alternative, start exploiting users for more and more content for ad revenue, while also exploiting advertisers with ever-increasing costs of ad revenue, while also cutting costs on the quality of their service until it becomes unusable. But at this point it is too late for Mastodon, the momentum it once had is now long gone and no longer a threat to the Meta corporation. Their investment paid off.

Meta is one of the worlds largest corporations that has made most of its money not just through advertising but from gathering and selling people’s personal information. They are scared to death about losing control over the Internet that they had gained over the past 15 years or so, and they are fighting to take that control back for themselves.

We built this, but now a corporation like Meta/Facebook feels they have the right to exploit it for all its riches until it is destroyed. Don’t let it happen. Join the Fediblock cause, it is the only way to protect our home-grown community from corporate take-over.

Eugene Rochko thinks Threads is good, he is wrong

Eugene Rochko who developed Mastodon as a Twitter-like app based on the ActivityPub protocol, has a blog post explaining why he thinks federating with Threads is good for Mastodon.

We have been advocating for interoperability between platforms for years. The biggest hurdle to users switching platforms when those platforms become exploitative is the lock-in of the social graph, the fact that switching platforms means abandoning everyone you know and who knows you. The fact that large platforms are adopting ActivityPub is not only validation of the movement towards decentralized social media, but a path forward for people locked into these platforms to switch to better providers. Which in turn, puts pressure on such platforms to provide better, less exploitative services. This is a clear victory for our cause, hopefully one of many to come.

Eugen Rochko: qif you've got questions about what interoperability with Threads means, we wrote this up back in July, and you can still refer to it. Make no mistake, this is huge for Mastodon. Currently people have to choose between X, Mastodon, and Threads, and network effects play a dominant role in that choice. IF we can say, you can access all the folks that went to Threads from a Mastodon account, that makes it a far more attractive option given all of its other perks :winkingface:

No, Threads will get people to leave Mastodon in droves. Really all Facebook is doing here is leaching users away from Mastodon. The average user doesn’t know or care about the “perks” of non-Facebook Mastodon instances that Eugene is talking about. They will go with the service with the most name recognition every time, rather than trust an independent, small-time instance operator.

Threads is just Facebook with ActivityPub compatibility and extended Facebook’s ads and tracking. The goal is to pull people away from decentralized networks and back to being under their control. Then the network effects Eugene is talking about will kick in, but moving people away from Mastodon and toward Threads.

History repeats itself again

We have seen all this before. Google did something similar when they first embraced support for the open and federated XMPP protocol in their Google Talk (GChat) app, and exactly the situation I described above happened. Eventually Google shut it down, and started calling the original XMPP apps “unauthorized third-party apps,” although in fact Google was itself originally a third-party to the existing XMPP services that existed before GChat was invented.

People can and do still use XMPP, and I would encourage you to use it as well for video/voice/text chat. But all that momentum and popularity was extinguished, and was never really regained, at least not in the 9 years since Google extinguished it. So Google was successful in destroying a community of federated services using a popular communication protocol that made it difficult for Google to track and control people on the Internet.

We know for sure what Facebooks goal is not: they do not want to do something good for the various communities of people that have organically sprung-up around Mastodon and the other ActivityPub-based federated social networks. Mastodon does not need to make this mistake with Facebook Thraeds.

Mastodon and ActivityPub are important

Mastodon became most popular in the wake of Elon Musk buying out the Twitter corporation. Calling himself a “free speech aboslutist,” which sounds as though he believes everyone should have a voice online no matter how unsavory that voice might be, quickly proved to be anything but a proponent of free speech, quietly censoring his critics and the political groups he hated, while giving a voice to everyone else, including (seemingly enthusiastically) giving a voice to racists and hate speech.

This happens every so often, although not always with the amount of drama churning around a single central figure such as Elon Musk. People see how dangerous it is that the communities we form over the Internet can only actually exist at the whims of an impersonal corporation that might at any point go insane and destroy their communities. When an Elon Musk event happens, then the problem becomes clear to everyone: they had been putting their faith into a monarch and/or despot like Twitter, and now it has turned against them.

The solution to this is, and always has been, the democratic approach, which in this case is Mastodon. Do not allow any one authority to have aboslute control over the plane of existence. Allow people to opt-in, and give them a say in how their community is run. Trust that people are smart enough to understand what is in their own best interest, and allow them to make their own decisions and cast their own votes. This is how ActivityPub and Mastodon work. But if a democracy is not careful, it can easily be overwhelmed and elimitated by the well-equipped armies competing for their resources.

  • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    These megacorporations are why we left for the Fediverse in the first place. It’s absurd to federate with them now and expect them not to enshittify this place too.

    • Ramin Honary@lemmy.mlOP
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      11 months ago

      These megacorporations are why we left for the Fediverse in the first place

      Exactly! I do have hope that Mastodon, Lemmy, and the rest will be resistant to enshittification. As long as these instances are funded by the users in a non-profit capacity, there will be no need for ads and therefore no enshittification. Even if they federate with enshittified for-profit instances where professional influencers are pressured into creating more and more ads, I think most of the good instances will just block the annoying influencers, or defederate entirely.

      But I guarantee, if Threads succeeds in halting Mastodon’s momentum and enough people leave Mastodon for threads, they will eventually end up enshittified exactly the way Twitter and Reddit ended up.

  • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl
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    11 months ago

    Threads is big not because the average social media users cares or even knows about Federation, but because it came free with their Instagram account.

    Obviously Threads is going to be a better platform than Mastodon or Lemmy because the Fediverse doesn’t have any billionaires backup projects like these. Threads did copy a lot of Kadtodkn’s homework, though, and Mastodon can copy right back. Win-win for everyone, I’d say.

    I don’t get the conspiracy theory that Threads is out there to kill ActivityPub. It’s an open standard, they could’ve joined the body governing it years ago if they wanted to. They’re enabling federation because they’re huge and that means they have to open their software up to competition (the EU’s DMA). This is just a test to see how that would go.

    Threads doesn’t gather your data to advertise to you. It can’t advertise to you, because you’re not on Threads. If you care so much, you’ll block the entire domain anyway, or course, but there’s no business incentive for Facebook to gather your data. All they’d be doing is exposing themselves to further privacy violation fines.

    Threads poses one danger to the Fediverse, and it’s the same danger Reddit would pose if they would join: the ability to build and market an app most normal people would be willing to use. The whole XMPP story is just another example of that: almost nobody used XMPP, then a bunch of people discovered XMPP because Gmail and Facebook supported it, and then that support stopped. Now almost nobody uses XMPP anymore, just like before. XMPP was never a feature anyone cares about, that’s why it got killed.

    Mastodon is the best Fediverse software out there and you still can’t follow someone from their profile page. Instead of blocking the competition, maybe build something better. Improve the onboarding process, explain how it works without using the word “federation”, work on interoperability, fix the flood of spam notifications you receive when you have more than 100 followers, maybe even do daring things like “make the replies under a toot show up if the toot comes from another server”. While we’re at it, maybe also start doing some better moderation, because every big Fediverse instance seems to be managed by two or three volunteers every other weekend.

    You talk about democracy, but ignore the fact that maybe the 141 million users on Threads may disagree with the at most 4 million users on Mastodon/Lemmy/Firefish/Kbin/Mbin/CalcKey/whatever. Foursquare has joined the Fediverse, increasing its size by tenfold in one fell swoop, and Tumblr is working on it.

    ActivityPub is taking off and doing its job. We’re entering the eternal September of the Fediverse: it has become successful enough that large companies with sizable user bases are joining up, proving the success of ActivityPub and the concepts behind it for once and for all.

    • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      Agreed defederating is a losing strat. Its a trade war. While protectionist policies make sense to limit defence on the larger attention economy, trying to embargo the largest economies make little sense because they can continue to grow at a good pace without us.

  • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    “We don’t want to interact with those toxic people from Threads”

    “But I’m okay with Threads federation”

    “WTF? You must be a fascist. Go suck Zuckerberg’s dick, loser”.

    The irony is hilarious. And they wonder why more people aren’t open to joining the Fediverse and instead stick with the corporate sites.

  • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    FFS, all the constant hysterical posts about Threads on here are worse than all the Elon Musk ones.

    • Ramin Honary@lemmy.mlOP
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      11 months ago

      constant hysterical posts about Threads on here are worse than all the Elon Musk ones

      Congratulations, you passed the test! You didn’t fall for the pro-Threads side of the argument or the anti-Threads side, you used your immense brainpower to transcend the petty debate and correctly called out both sides as “hysterical.” Well done! You shall be rewarded with a free cookie, or a free beer, whichever you prefer, and you can shove it right up your ass.

    • ruckblack@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      Seriously, and it’s the same on mastodon. I’m about ready to just filter out the word “threads.”

        • ruckblack@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          And THESE are the sort of delightful interactions being threatened by Threads federation! Don’t let them bring their toxicity to our totally non-toxic space!

          • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            You mean this thread full of whiners? Yeah, better keep that shit in threads where it belongs with you chucklefucks. You wanna go on threads, go be on threads. Leave the fediverse for those of us that contribute and want FOSS anarchy, not tyranny of the majority.

              • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                TIL: Solid arguments = “being a toxic asshole.” Also, I write content bots for the fediverse. What do you do?

                You’re so butthurt you’re dripping shit down your leg. Go to threads and complain about us.

                • ruckblack@sh.itjust.works
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                  11 months ago

                  TIL: Strawmanning = solid arguments. Do you? Notable lack of mention in your posts.

                  You seem awfully angry, I’d even say toxic. I don’t want to go to threads, I like it here. I just don’t think optional federation with them will spell doom and gloom for the entire project. I have a difference of opinion, which seems to have royally pissed you off. Butthurt seems like a fitting term, just not for me.

      • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        Wow, people on a small platform caring alot about it being threatened by a megacorp. How odd.