Note:

I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    123
    arrow-down
    32
    ·
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    If anyone is still wondering why Hamas and other resistance factions are fighting, this is what happens when the IDF wins.

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Fuck Hamas. They are not “resisting”, they killed innocent civilians, women and children, and don’t give a flying fuck about the Palestinian civilians either (cf Moussa Abu Marzouk’s declaration that they are not responsible for defending the civilians in Gaza). They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin. Fuck Hamas as much as the Likud and the ultranationalist Israeli right to the seventh pit of hell.

      • fosho@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 months ago

        on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted. when asked why, they said that Palestinians have long given up any hope that negotiations could achieve their goal of freedom and independence. they said that since negotiating has clearly failed for decades, Palestinians feel that the only remaining option Israel has left them is aggression and violence. and Hamas is the leadership that is willing to resort to violence.

        while I certainly feel awful about any innocent Israelis getting caught up in the original attack, I can’t help but feel like Israel has done this to themselves. they have caged an entire group like wild animals for decades and somehow have the audacity to blame them for lashing out.

        but let’s be honest here. we have all heard these points and most of us have already made up our minds about it.

      • Specal@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        11 months ago

        It’s hard to not let your emotions take over, but Hamas only exists because of the hatred of Israel.

        Hamas exists because Israel doesn’t want Palestines to exist.

        Terrorist organisation typically don’t continue to exist for extended periods of time without external assistance.

        • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          This is silly, not mentioning Iran as the actual people training and funding Hamas is either very deceptive or evidence you have no idea about anything happening in the middle East.

          Also acting like Hamas are the only terrorist organisation in the middle East and a total novelty is absolutely absurd, when people call them freedom fighters without any reference to what they’re actually saying they’re fighting for is again totally deceptive or from a total lack of understanding - they don’t want freedom they want a theocratic dictatorship and death to all non Muslims.

          That’s not too say everything Israel have done of good or moral but painting Hamas as innocent people just fighting for their freedom is laughable

          • Specal@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            Oh blah blah blah, this whole situation is alot simpler that Israeli defence Muppets like.

            Israel is NOT a poor developing nation. Their military is on par with the UK. Their economy is doing fantastic. Quality of life in Israel is growing.

            Israel wether you like it or not are always going to be the bad guys in the situation simply because they should know better. They have been taunting, attacking and murdering Palestinians for 70 years. The only countries other than Israel that are to blame are the US and the UK.

            • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              So being successful when everyone is trying to kill you makes them bad but rich countries like Iran failing repeatedly to complete the genocides they fund makes them loveable roagues who can do no wrong?

              You’ll excuse me if I don’t subscribe to your philosophy of life.

              • ???@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                No, it’s when you keep trying to slaughter Palestinians for colonial and racist reasons and succeeding at it continuously.

                Israel is a country where Palestinians queue in cages and are strip searched only to be humiliated.

                Fuck Israel today and every day until it stops what it’s doing.

              • Specal@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                Because you’re acting like it’s an army Vs an army, it’s not it’s an army Vs civilians

        • acargitz@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          That’s what I said:

          They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin.

    • jimbo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      For fucks sake, Hamas is not a “resistance faction” and pretty much nothing was happening until they decided to poke the bear. They’re a bunch of worthless shitstains who don’t give two shits about the welfare of Palestinians.

        • CybranM@feddit.nu
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          What do you think Israel should’ve done after Hamas killed over a thousand people?

            • CybranM@feddit.nu
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              11 months ago

              That seems like a very unlikely response, doubt any country would accept anything right after an attack like that.

              • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                11 months ago

                And that’s why terrorist groups work versus modern states. They can count on disproportionate response. Hamas support was lower before Oct 7 but thanks to Israel liquidation of 20k people, now they have staunch support.

            • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              11 months ago

              Does that involve all Jewish people leaving Israel or are you talking about the two state solution which Israel has repeatedly tried to work towards and both the plo and now Hamas reject on principle?

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      11 months ago

      Bastards killing civilians one direction. Bastards killing civilians in the other direction.

      If the bastards could fucking kill the other bastards and not involve civilians, that’d be pretty swell. If the IDF and Hamas actually fight each other and no civilians are hurt, everyone wins.

    • DoomBot5@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      When IDF wins? They could have done this years ago with Hamas started their raine of terror over Israel following Israel trying to do a good will gesture in Gaza. Instead Israel agreed to ceasefire after ceasfire that Hamas continously broke with thousands of rockets fired at civilians. This last massacre by Hamas was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back.

      You know why Hamas are fighting? Because their goal is to murder every jew they can. They don’t want peace, they want blood.

      • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        45
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        11 months ago

        Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?

        Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.

        • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          11 months ago

          Do you like this group of people? If yes, freedom fighters; if not, terrorists

          Do you like this state? If yes, government; if not, regime.

          • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            11 months ago

            I don’t like Hamas. They are nothing more than bigoted murderers. But they are created from a system of hate. This isn’t an argument of viewpoint. It’s just facts

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              What’s bigoted about them? They want to kill their oppressors they don’t care about race or religion.

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  There’s a church in Gaza full of CHRISTIANS that was shot by who again two days ago? Was it Hamas? Oh no it was the IDF!

                  Because Hamas fights against oppressive Nazis not people of a different religion.

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    Because the IDF commits war crimes Hamas is not a theocratic dictatorial regime? How did you manage to infer the one from the other?

                    I’ll readily grant Hamas that it doesn’t oppress Christians more than it oppresses Muslims. They’re still oppressors, though.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          11 months ago

          Native American militias didn’t brutalise Native Americans, much unlike Hamas does to Palestinians.

          • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            11 months ago

            This is simply not true. Plenty of natives fought against other natives, whether independently, or with US troops, or for bounties.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              11 months ago

              Those were generally clashes between different tribes. Hamas is doing internal political oppression, brutalising political opponents etc.

          • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            11 months ago

            Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes. Even during colonial expansion. Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              11 months ago

              Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes.

              Irrelevant because Gaza is not different tribes, thus I ignored it. But I bet you felt smart typing that.

              Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.

              Quite an edgelord take but yes they’re oppressing Palestinians, and killed a lot of Israeli leftists, hippie Kibbutz type people actually helping people in Gaza, in their attacks, Kahanites certainly don’t mind that. I don’t think Israel was planning on Hamas having a shot at the Israeli-Saudi rapprochement, though.

      • chitak166@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        11 months ago

        Is it possible for you to argue without analogies? They’re never a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand. All they do is serve to distract from the conversation by making people debate the accuracy of the analogy.

      • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        I bet you’d call the Viet Cong terrorists during the Vietnam war too lol.

        This is similar to that in some regards too; similar guerilla tactics, and they’re also fighting to drive away an occupying force and reunify their country.

        Their attack on Oct 7 was brutal, but it’s nothing compared to the shit Israel has been repeatedly doing for the last half century.

    • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      33
      arrow-down
      89
      ·
      11 months ago

      First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.

      However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.

      • chitak166@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        50
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        11 months ago

        Dang, so the IDF gets your blessing even though they’re killing 10x as many civilians as a terrorist organization?

        Even though they’re killing more civilians than Russia?

        • jimbo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Were you replying to a different post or something?

          However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.

        • Soulg@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          11 months ago

          Wow it’s like you completely and utterly ignored his second paragraph entirely.

        • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          11 months ago

          Based on your comment, can I ask what would be your solution the whole Palestine-Israel conflict?

          • wewbull@iusearchlinux.fyi
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            Trials in the Hague followed by imprisonment of all those guilty of war crimes. At this point that Includes most IDF members, their leaders, and the government.

            Actually bring consequences to bear and let other Israelis know that this isn’t acceptable. Israel also needs to be cut off from the teat of the American military industrial complex.

            Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.

            Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.

            Basically the UN needs to do it’s job, but that needs America not to veto.

            • jimbo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              11 months ago

              Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.

              Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.

              Explain to me how that works with Hamas, because I don’t think they give a fuck about either of those things. More troops on the ground?

              • wewbull@iusearchlinux.fyi
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                Probably needs a UN peace keeping force.

                …but Hamas is also a political entity and the government of Palestine. Sanctions would matter if Gaza wasn’t already blockaded by Israel.

          • Mrkawfee@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            A bi national state modelled on the EU. Palestinian state delineated by the 1967 borders coexisting with the Jewish state. Single market and freedom of movement for all citizens whether Israeli or Palestinian. That way settlers don’t have to be removed and Palestinians can work in the cities as they did before Oslo.

          • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            I’m not the person you’re talking to but as far as i can see the only way to go is one state solution.

            • jimbo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 months ago

              Help me out here, because I don’t see that how that’s supposed to work with the whole “killing a bunch of each other” thing going on.

        • bossito@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          11 months ago

          The constant attacks against Israel and it’s increasing isolation only probs Zionists right. Jews can only trust themselves for their own defense and need a state for that (that’s what Zionism is). People like you feed Zionism everyday.

          • Mrkawfee@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            You’re conflating Jews with an extremist ideology that can only seem to exist through apartheid.

      • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        26
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?

        Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          It’s time to put in a UN peacekeeping force and a transitional government for a single state solution. Israel has beyond lost it’s moral high ground and should be treated like any other colonial remnant in the post colonial world.

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        11 months ago

        Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.

        Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.

        The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.

        You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Hey don’t dare to call Hamas as cruel as the IDF. They don’t torture their hostages nor shoot children. Nor do they try to kill people from other religions such as Christians living in Gaza nor do they try to steal other people’s land.

          They resist a genocidal Nazi regime and sometimes don’t do it the neatest way but from their position of fighting against their oppressors they hold pretty high moral standards.

          Hamas is infinitely humane than the IDF.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        11 months ago

        You can’t kill a terrorist group. The US spent the last 20 years proving that. You can only defend yourself and reform people/institutions to invalidate the ideology.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          All israel would need to do for Hamas to die out is not commit genocide or ethnically cleanse Palestinians and occupy their land.

          But people here forget that that’s literally what israel is about.

          • Azal@pawb.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            11 months ago

            When Hamas attacked I commented Israel would lash out with it’s usual fervor, making sure that any Palestinians that didn’t support Hamas wouldn’t have a choice. And that the US world would back Israel, providing more ammunition to the Muslim extremists in the middle east to want to continue to fight the US. And Israel working at that time to a potential deal actually worked out with Saudi Arabia would get smashed. Hamas played the world like a fucking fiddle and literally everyone danced along with the tune.

            • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              11 months ago

              I’m glad somebody else sees it, too. The Oct. 7th attack doesn’t make any sense, except to provoke Israel to overreact and draw other groups and countries into the fight. For fuck’s sake, Osama bin Laden straight-up explained this strategy to the world after the 9/11 attacks.

      • Aleric@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 months ago

        Shenanigans are things you can film with Yakkity Sax as background music. Boots Randolph doesn’t provide the soundtrack to genocide.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          11 months ago

          You can’t use that word!!! The Big Brains™ will tell you that unless Israel is targeting every single Palestinian on earth then it’s not genocide!

          /Wrist

      • kaffiene@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        11 months ago

        They are are a resistance group, but that’s not really imoortant: I agree that Israel is justified in getting rid of them. What isn’t justified is almost everything they’ve done to achieve that aim.

        • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          They have nothing in common with a resistance group. They are just brutal terrorists who have been terrible both to Israel and Gaza, as well. Just look at how much money were they getting and see how it ended.

          Israel has done war crimes, so it’s logical to condemn them for these actions. I believe they should have kept the approach from the beginning when they were precisely targeting the most dangerous buildings because Hamas was still a threat.