https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
Many of us do not trust Facebook and anything it is associated with or swallows up.
EDIT:
"Instagram head Adam Mosseri said "
““Soon, you’ll be able to follow and interact with people on other fediverse platforms, such as Mastodon. They can also find people on Threads using full usernames, such as @mosseri@threads.net.””
“We’re committed to building support for ActivityPub, the protocol behind Mastodon, into this app. We weren’t able to finish it for launch given a number of complications that come along with a decentralized network, but it’s coming,” he said.
“If you’re wondering why this matters, here’s a reason: you may one day end up leaving Threads, or, hopefully not, end up de-platformed. If that ever happens, you should be able to take your audience with you to another server. Being open can enable that.”
I have done a little bit of reading but I’m still not sure what the issue is. Is it that Threads will take over and defacto become the entire Fediverse? Because I think that would happen whether or not Mastoson/Lemmy instances choose to defederate. Is privacy the concern, and if so, wouldn’t it only affect people using Threads?
Because this is reminiscent of what happened with XMPP. In the old days you had many closed source protocols for instant messaging. Then XMPP came along and started gaining steam. At that point, major platforms started using it, with everything federated. Someone with Google could talk to someone on Facebook and with someone on myown.sillyserver.net. Everything was going great. But obviously the majority of people went with the easy option to go with Facebook or Google, meaning you still had a federated network on the paper, but with a few actors weighing way more than most.
Obviously at that point, they slowly defederated, preventing their customers from talking to their contacts on other platforms. But most of their contacts where on the same platform, so the cost of migrating was higher. That’s how the federation ended. XMPP still exists, and was actually used by WhatsApp in a non federated way, but it is the shell of itself with not a lot of people using it.
A social network strength is in its number. Accepting Meta into Fediverse creates a very real risk that they will try an embrace and extinguish strategy and in the end you will have most people on Meta and just a niche of people on Lemmy/Mastodon, similar to how it was a few months ago.
The goal of the fediverse is to find the proper balance between having multiple platforms big enough so that moderation and technical management can be done by knowledgeable people, but small enough that they cannot decide willy nilly to defederated. Having Meta in the fediverse would very probably break that balance.
XMPP died because of competition. Everyone is forgetting everyone said Google was losing the chat wars with Apple and that’s why Google repeatedly released new systems. Google left XMPP and that isn’t why XMPP failed. It failed because virtually everyone had either an Apple account or Android account. So they all had a chat account already. They “destroyed” XMPP the same way Blackberry hurt XMPP at the time as well. XMPP would be just as relevant if Google never federated with it.
One concern would be:
- Say Lemmy/kbin grows organically to 1 million users.
- Threads federates, with 100 million users
Do you want these users flooding Lemmy? I don’t want to be biased at the theoretical type of user on Threads, though if the right wingers/trolls/extremists migrate to Threads because they think it’s “more open” then that may be an issue. If it’s full of soccer moms posting pictures of their kids, or karens complaining about everything, that may be an issue.
Multiculturalism is great, I want to hear new ideas, though some areas are breeding grounds for lower-think, it seems. This probably sounds prejudiced or elitist.
I want to talk to the vanguard people who take the risk and are openminded and come to lemmy, not necessarily the “lemmings” who join facebook because they love facebook and don’t want to, or can’t, delve deeper into why facebook is one of the worst forces in media at the moment.
I am not prejudiced (I hope) against “regular people” and “soccer moms”, though think that if 10 million soccer moms came here, the discussions may not be as… interesting, as they are.
Also, I don’t know what lemmy instances will think about downloading masses of data from threads.
I donate money to this platform because I want an open and free internet. I want that for anyone who wants to partake. I don’t want extremists, sure - but I think the “soccer moms” you are referring to are really just your average internet consumer. If we don’t agree on that, that’s fine - I’m happy to move to an instance that’s not as restrictive. I think that’s the beauty of the fediverse. I think it’s ironic when you talk about wanting open minded people to join the instance though lol.
I think this will be pretty manageable by finding and using communities that are well-run and have explicit rules and standards of behavior that are enforced. If a community is explicitly meant for serious conversations about, I dunno, music theory, that is enforceable, and if Suburban Subaru Sarah actually wants to join in on that, all the better, but pics of her kid’s soccer game will belong in a different space, just as much as pics of some nerd’s Warcraft raid do too.
Sure. However, you can’t trust meta, so anything that is done I hope has several failbacks and get-out clauses.
Ultimately, there is simply no mechanism for Meta to interfere with a community that it doesn’t federate with. I can definitely see a bit of a split developing between Meta and non-Meta instances, but beyond that, there’s really not much to worry about
I have some mixed feelings about this
But (and don’t hate me for this) If theads joins the fediverse it could actually bring a large user base over
And ofcourse once meta gets greedy the fediverse should do what it’s designed for and prevent any large company from owning the fediverse
It could also convince a decent portion of the threads userbase to move over to lemmy or mastodon much easier then they would of been able to in the past since they will already be so close
Tl;Dr Allow meta into the fediverse but if it’s shit then defederate them aka do what this system was designed for
I feel like this is entirely against Lemmy.world’s ethos of “a general-purpose Lemmy instance of various topics, for the entire world to use” (emphasis mine). I for one joined this instance exactly because they didn’t have a ban-happy federation policy like some of the other big ones. I understand people’s concerns, but if you want a “fuck corporations” walled garden instance, I feel like there are better homes for you somewhere else…
Corporations offer the walled garden. Keeping them and their greedy growth-at-all-costs motives out of here would be better for the community. You have places to go to go enjoy those platforms already. Feel free to use them. Please don’t force them on everyone here where they aren’t generally welcome and where the communities here do better without them.
We don’t have a lot of places to go to get away from them. And again, you can run to them and their platforms without pushing it on the rest of us.
I don’t think anyone is forcing anything on anyone? It just sounds like people like you and others in this thread want a more curated instance WRT federation, which I don’t think lemmy.world was designed to be (though I’m absolutely keen to be corrected if I’ve missed something in their policies).
That’s the freedom of this platform right, being able to move around to communities that better suit the individual 🤷♂️ Not trying to flame and argument my friend, just sounds like there’s a more obvious answer.
I don’t necessarily want much interference with content. Just defederate from known bad actors really.
We have no evidence of bad acting in the fediverse from Meta. It’s all speculation at this point. And you’re changing your argument back and forth from poor content concerns to “meta is evil.”
You’re asking for a better curated community in the end. If the content is bad or some other weird scenario occurs, then admins will act accordingly.
No evidence of bad acting from Meta? This is a joke right? If you think they will not do their best to pull the same bullshit they have pulled everywhere else you being a bit naive.
I’m not changing my argument. I don’t generally want interference with content. BUT in the case of Meta, who is known to be awful, and have awful content, yes I argue that both are good enough reasons to not join hands with them.
You literally misquoted me. I said no evidence of bad acting in the fediverse. Words have meaning. Don’t argue in bad faith.
I’m not arguing in bad faith. They aren’t in the fediverse yet so of course there is no evidence here yet. I’m pointing out that you are putting your head in the sand and ignoring that Meta is a bad company, with bad intentions, and they will not change just because muh fediverse.
I can’t even interact on lemmy.world with my mastodon.world account. Is it really worth worrying about Thread accounts being able to interact here?
I have a feeling Thread is never going to bother with ActivityPub anyway. I suspect the threat was only ever a hedge in case Thread wasn’t as wildly successful on launch as it turned out to be.
"Instagram head Adam Mosseri said "
““Soon, you’ll be able to follow and interact with people on other fediverse platforms, such as Mastodon. They can also find people on Threads using full usernames, such as @mosseri@threads.net.””
“We’re committed to building support for ActivityPub, the protocol behind Mastodon, into this app. We weren’t able to finish it for launch given a number of complications that come along with a decentralized network, but it’s coming,” he said.
“If you’re wondering why this matters, here’s a reason: you may one day end up leaving Threads, or, hopefully not, end up de-platformed. If that ever happens, you should be able to take your audience with you to another server. Being open can enable that.”
In case Lemmy.world doesn’t defederate, I need an instance recommendation. Preferably something active. Not lemmy.ml and beehaw.org, I’m not going back to those. Anyone got any ideas?
I’m aware of the beehaw drama… But what’s the issue with lemmy.ml?
To me it’s simple. If Zuck has a part in this, I will find somewhere else to go.
Isn’t Threads federating with Mastodon, not Lemmy?
Mastodon and Lemmy are linked (you can see replies form mastodon users and posts), and if threads joins then we are all linked.
Honestly, I feel like u/ruud is gonna see these comments and keep Zuck out of things. He seems like he cares about what’s going on up in here.
If they are going to block it, I would have thought they have decided that already, though seems like mastodon’s head agreed - how much was he paid, I wonder.
Mastodon’s head can’t choose who individual instances federate with. I think he’s in charge of like, one? How many people in this thread have already shown they have no clue how federation works?
Yes, that is why I’m asking the admins of lemmy.world if they are going to block it.
Also, this is the largest mastrodon server that is likely federating with threads, so not a small deal.
I don’t see what people are afraid of. Lemmy.world can do what it wishes, but I honestly don’t see where the fear comes in. At the very least just mark it invisible. Let those other users see what other alternatives are out there.
What problem are you trying to fix by blocking them before even seeing what it’s like (without using some vague notions)?
Will it even natively federate with this format? Just as Mastodon doesn’t default to trying to display posts in its feed and Kbin doesn’t by default show Mastodon or PixelFed, etc. You might be worrying over nothing.
Your server federated with Mastodon instances. I’m assuming you aren’t inundated with Mastodon posts.
As long as lemmy.world blocks it, it’s not an issue - for us anyway, I hope. Though meta are devious - you need to be watchful.
“Anyone who disagrees with me has clearly been bribed”.
I think it is not-naive to assume that the ridiculously wealthy Meta, which is known to purchase smaller companies, has met with the much smaller mastodon and offered them money. It may be cynical, however it is not-naive.
It’s very simple. Facebook/meta bullshit on here and I am moving to -tildes.
Fuck corporations. I hope they all burn and I hope their creators and their born and unborn offspring get cancer and die.
