“No way to prevent this” says only country to keep doing this around the world since WW2
I am not counting other NATO countries for the same reason you don’t count pets towards the occupancy of a house.
Also,
They’re not wrong. Azov have been far-right extremists since the beginning. But imagine if a foreign country invaded the US and gained a sizable stronghole. We’d be arming right-wing militias to repel the invaders too.
They’re a help now, but Azov will be a problem in the future.
We’d be arming right-wing militias to repel the invaders too.
Yeah, that’s a problem. It’s almost as if liberalism enables fascism.
They’re a help now
No they’re fucking not. They’re fucking fascists. On what planet are fascists “a help”?
No they’re fucking not. They’re fucking fascists. On what planet are fascists “a help”?
Um, on Bizzaro World? Did you consider that, sweaty?
Intolerant anti-Nazi bigot OWNED.
But imagine if a foreign country invaded the US and gained a sizable stronghole. We’d be arming right-wing militias to repel the invaders too.
Who’s “we”? Biden? You are saying Biden will arm Jan 6th rioters to repel the Chinese or Russians or whatever?
Also, brave Mujahideen etc etc
They’re a help now, but Azov will be a problem in the future.
I can’t wait for Azov to do another 9/11
Plus there’s the small problem of Azov having been instrumental in raiding the Donbas region of Ukraine for seven years before the Russian Federation got involved. So it would be more like if Rishi Sunak armed the Oathkeepers to raze Arizona until Mexico felt the need to intervene.
Which time the Russians got involved?
Who’s “we”? Biden?
We as in the US. Stop trying to pwn the “other side” weirdo.
So you are saying that the U.S. will fund right wing domestic terrorists to fight the Chinese?
I mean, yeah, if China decided to invade the US, the US probably would proliferate the explosives needed by those far right militias right down to 'em, they already have more small arms and ammo than the US mil of course, but they would need the Apaches and Hellfire missiles to be dispensed. OH, and half of them are already trained in their use, being ex military themselves. So “yes” I guess is what I’m trying to say. Or perhaps more accurately “probably, yes.”
I’m saying if the Chinese invade, gain a significant stronghold, and use that area to continuously bombard the surrounding area in an attempt to overtake the entire country, the US will arm anyone they can. It’s not a difficult concept, why is this so hard?
We know that you, and other liberals, would do the same because you are doing it right now for Ukraine and have always supported fascists over anyone and anything that challenges capital or the status quo. That’s one of the many reasons we despise liberals. Arming Nazis is always bad, why is this so hard?
No they won’t. The U.S. would never arm communists, for instance.
Anyone familiar with even a cursory history if the Black Panthers knows just how far the US will go to disarm communists.
if the Chinese invade
because you are creating a fantasy land in your own head.
p.s. you are a dick.
No, you never arm nazis. Azov is worse than just a “right wing militia”, they are actual blood and soil neo nazis. How many times that this have to backfire backfire before people realise arming Nazis is a terrible idea?
Also this ignores the fact that far right elements were essential in the 2014 coup taking place in Ukraine. The support of Nazi groups was needed to seperate Russia and Ukraine diplomatically. That’s the whole reason “the West” has been arming and supporting them for close to a decade now.
But if we stop trying how will we know for sure it fails 100% of the time?
They could just be fed to the cannon…
Azov are Nazis, but…
Point of fact: the right wing militias in the US are already armed.
Okay, and?
Russia is the pressing threat. Throw Russia out first, and retake Crimea. Then deal with Azov fanatics. That’s what triage is; you deal with the big thing first, and then the smaller things. You don’t treat an amputated finger while someone is gushing blood from a severed carotid.
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Never going to happen.
Defeatist.
Also never going to happen.
Also defeatist.
This is the point in time where I ask how Putin’s boot tastes like. Palestine kept fighting for over 80 years and your view of Ukrainian resolve speaks volumes. Sure, Azov might be the Ukrainian equivalent to Hamas, but last I checked invasion tends to breed extremist groups and those extremist groups tend to be a pain in the invaders ass. Word to IS and Al Quaida, who still haven’t been defeated by US imperialists. Will it take some time for them to get curbed after all is said and done? Yes, just look at the IRA. Needless to say, you’ve got plenty of other historical precedent to contend with.
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I’m not really sure what they’re trying to raise as a specific issue here.
Azov are a part of the Ukrainian military. That’s Ukraine’s decision. If we give arms to Ukraine there’s a good chance some of those arms will end up in the hands of Azov members.
There’s not really any way to avoid that. We need to put diplomatic pressure on Ukraine to deal with the problem of far right extremists in their country (and, y’know, it would probably help if we were leading the way by doing more to deal with far right extremists in our own country), but abandoning them to the Russians just because they’re not perfect paragons of progressive idealism isn’t helping anything.
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This play ruzzian propaganda so well. Just keep adding stories about nazis i ukraine and at the end, noone will be certain about whats true or not. Still, ofc there are nazis in ukraine, but that is true about all countries.
Sadly I’m still pretty sure the most damage here has been done by Ukraine itself:
Yes, of course there are some nazis in Ukraine. Sadly every country seem to have some fringe right-wing morons. And using them to fight Russia, especially in a time when the offcial army wasn’t up to the task yet, was understandable.
But that’s not the main problem. The main problem is doubt that Ukraine will be able to handle them at some point when it’s necessary. And when -to paraphrase Ukraine’s then ambassador to Germany for example in 2015- the answer to the question if they realize that this can become a problem down the road is: “No, you are lying to help Russian propaganda! There are and never in history were any right-wing groups in Ukraine!” that’s a pretty big indicator that they won’t manage that problem ever. Because acknowledging it exists would have been the required first step instead of spewing insane rants.
They were a movement that was an active militia (trained and armed) that took part in the elections and did not even get enough votes for a single seat in Parlaiment.
ukraine is a nazi state
Statements without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Both Zelensky and Azov are funded by Ukrainian billionaire Ihor Kolomoisky, but do go on there little buddy https://www.thedailybeast.com/billionaire-ukrainian-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-under-investigation-by-fbi
Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955
Ukraine: On patrol with the far-right National Militia https://www.bbc.com/news/av/43632454
Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1GV2TC/
Azov fighters are Ukraine’s greatest weapon and may be its greatest threa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis
Yes, there are extremists in Ukraine. Azov (and others) was this before the war, they where also a political party that did not get enough votes for a single seat in Ukrainian parlement.
And Azov started to militarize… after the Russian invasion in 2014 as counter weight to Girkin and his extremists who dragged Ukraine into a war.
So what is your point? A whole state is defined by its extremist minority? Ukraine does not have the luxury to crack down on or exclude these groups now they are in an existential battle for survival.
A state is comprised of more than just the people that got elected into office. When you have Azov formally integrated into the military, a president that was elected on the platform of uniting the country and ending a civil war getting laughed at when he tries to enact his mandate, diplomats and other officials that uphold bandera, a state forbidding minority languages, etc. It’s not just “an extremist minority” but an insitutional problem.
And to support these forces in order to topple a perceived geopolitical enemy is just collaborating with fascist, especially when doing so created that enemy in the first place.
I think you are turning around cause and effect. Fringe political extremist where turned into "heroic defenders of Ukraine the day little green men showed up to separate Crimea and the Donbas from Ukraine. If anything the Russian invasion have them legitimacy. It clearly says so in the links you provided.
Edit: And Putin stated Ukraine was not a country as early as the 90’s even though the USSR fell apart and countries that where autonomous before, became independent again.
Fringe political extremist where turned into "heroic defenders of Ukraine the day little green men showed up to separate Crimea and the Donbas from Ukraine.
Turned by whom? When you have leaked phone calls where the US discussed regime change, or Biden already predicting in 97 a pissed off Russia when NATO expands even when Clinton and Yeltsin basically handpicked Putin, it’s actually you that has cause and effect reversed.
My sources are western and are corroborating far right/Nazi Elements in Ukraine, but it’s still slanted with western foreign policy so you should read it with a grain of salt…
Led by a Jew
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You know what, I’ll give you that one.
And? Do you think that a jewish nazi is some kind of innate contradiction?
I would have before, but recent events are starting to make me feel differently
wait till you find out about the state of Israel and what it’s been up to
So is israel
I already bowed out on that
Bullshit propaganda supported by disingenuous supporters of this instance.
The Maple… Propaganda?
Fuck off back to America
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Again, go fuck off back to America where your insane opinions might be valued.
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cope
🙄😴
