Did I say mandatory? I meant optional! You’re “free” to die in a cardboard box under a freeway as a market capitalist scarecrow warning to the other ants so they keep showing up to make us more!

  • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Mhm. There’s two very good reason unrealized gains aren’t taxed: volatility and cash flow. Are you and the government expected to swap cash back and forth everyday to correct for changes in the market? No that’s silly. Should people go into debt because they don’t have the cash to pay the taxes of a baseball card they happen to own that is suddenly worth millions? Also silly.

    For that same reason, using unrealized gains as security is dangerous, just like the subprime loans market was!

      • Mcdolan@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yeah owning a baseball card worth money sure whatever, if you pawn that card sorry, pay taxes. You use that card a to secure a loan with lower interest rates than you’d get without then sorry, you are realizing gains whether or not you want to admit it. This goes along one of the lawsuits against Trump. He lied to get favorable interest rates by overvaluing his assets to get better interest rates. If that’s against the law why the fuck is that not counted as a “gain” to use assets to secure favorable interest rates?

    • Goodie@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      There’s a very good reason they should be taxed; half a dozen people are richer than god, and basically never pay any real amount of tax.

      • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        This would effectively lock out every small investor from the stock market due to the liability of both success and failure.

        • Goodie@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          How so?

          “Oh no, I made money, better put a small percentage of my gains away for tax season, just like I do with all of my income, because I’m American and lack a good PAYE system”.

            • Goodie@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Someone here has made a false assumption. In fact, I’m pretty sure we both have made several. The question is who has made a fatal false assumption? Let’s go.

              My root comment, at the top of all of this, was my idea that perhaps we should consider gains “realized” when they are sold OR used as a collateral in a loan.

              Your assertion is that it would wipe out small investors.

              I would question how many small investors are using their small investments as collateral in a loan?

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          No it wouldn’t. The proposal out there right now has a floor of something like a million dollars. Most of us will never need to worry about that.

        • jpreston2005@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I mean the stock market is literally gambling, so the risk of success and failure is already there. The proposal is whether or not we should allow people to use unrealized gains to secure loans without having to pay taxes on said gains at the point of taking the loan. This would only occur if you’re worth more than 100 million. You can afford to pay that tax.

          • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I mean the stock market is literally gambling

            I’ve a better record of success than the most successful poker players. Is it ten years of good luck or the consequences of effort and skill?

            The proposal is whether or not we should allow people to use unrealized gains to secure loans without having to pay taxes on said gains at the point of taking the loan.

            Thus locking out all non-corporate investors from margin, prerequisite to options, prerequisite to risk mitigation and gains enhancement. The average investor looses the freedom to do much more than DCA a fund.

            This would only occur if you’re worth more than 100 million.

            1. It’ll never be passed in such a way. Legislation always favors the corporate and wealthy as they’re the ones that write it. It’s most perverse in finance and investment. There’s been nothing favoring human investors since the breakup of Ma Bell.

            2. It’s totally inadequate to save the republic from the nearly-unmitigated, algorithmically-optimized capitalism that exists today. The biggest fish, corporations, would simply get bigger by eating their biggest threat: humans with a lot of resources, but not the most affluent.

            The stock market is a tool. It’s not the cause.

            TL;DR:

            The neolib’s proposal is crap.

            This isn’t:

            1. legislate away most of corporate personhood

            2. restore the Glass-Steagall Act

            3. repeal the Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      We’re talking about the stock market. And it would be quarterly or annual. Please stop exaggerating.

    • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      There’s a precise moment in time you take a loan. Use that moment in time to calculate worth; tax.

    • danc4498@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Sure, but this shouldn’t apply to everybody. Unrealized gains up to $10 million don’t get taxed. Unrealized gains over that amount get taxed.

      If you pay it yearly you’re not paying this every day. People with this much money almost always go up in unrealized gains every year, so it’s not going to be a back and forth. It’ll be a yearly adjustment. No different than literally everybody else that pays taxes on their new wealth every year.

      Edit: as for the baseball card example, if you’ve got over $10 million in unrealized gains on baseball cards, yeah, maybe you pay taxes on that.