I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
“Nothing new under the sun” I suppose!
My children are still very young, but oh are they happy!
They are enjoying their life and no future suffering will ever take that away from them.
I wouldn’t want to deny those awesome humans their right to play as merrily as they do. To create, to enjoy life. They exist right now as well, in 2025 and 2026.
The end of life is always painful. Life is still worth it.
It’s a very personal decision and I’m glad about every human that’s not born on this crowded planet. But collectively not having children feels pretty bleak to me. Are we as a species already giving up, rolling on our backs and wait to go extinct? Come on! There is so much beauty and so much to do in this world.
My children are having a great time, they bring joy, purpose and chaos to my life. I love having them around, even though their future scares me. That has always been part of becoming a parent.
I feel like some doomer lemmings need to go outside a little more, instead of telling themselves and their screens how awful everything is. Life was brutal a century ago.
I think that, no matter when you were born in history, there were trials and tribulations.
Absolutely I do. And I don’t understand what makes a person think that bringing a new life into this disaster is a good idea.
Well, hopefully you at least feel thankful that so many of your ancestors brought children into a world much more filled with pain and suffering and death than today.
I’m not, lmao. My life sucks. Wtf is with all the breeders here trying to justify their contributions to climate change!? There is immensely more pain and suffering in our immediate future than there was at any point in human history. We are literally looking at the end of humanity here.
Oh, and are you not contributing to climate change? Ok for you tho, just not kids?
Breeders, oy… So wtf you still doing here if so miserable and zero hope?
It’s the main reason I’m not having children. While there are other reasons the main one is a combination of global warming made worse by late stage capitalism and the resulting political instability that comes with that.
While I refuse to make the choice to bring someone new into this world myself I do see it as my duty to help as many of the kids around me who were brought into this world regardless. The world they were bron into is not their fault and I appreciate being able to use my resources to help them and their parents.
I think the next generation is going to start feeling it hard. Current generation will slip by but barely. I’m not pressuring my kids to have their own. Just do you fam.
Since the industrial revolution, fossil fuels were the only affordable energy sources that could meet the demand of industrialized countries. Until 5-10 years ago.
We’re now in a situation where most people can still pretend that climate change isn’t serious, and the fossil fuel lobby is stronger than ever. And yet over 90% of new electricity generation is already renewable, because it has simply become cheaper than coal and gas power in the last years.
As climate impacts worsen, the pressure to decarbonize will only get larger. The lobbies have been fighting tooth and nail against the energy transition for over 40 years, but they are rapidly loosing ground now in most countries.
It’s right to be alarmed about climate change, there will be serious long-term impacts, but it seems irrational to be completely fatalistic. Just comparing the battery prices and solar panel prices and ev market with 10 years ago reveals a truly massive shift. And this is just the beginning of the energy transition.
Yes
Life will be harder but your kids might make it better for the others
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Yeah, the world is overrun with dragons right now. It sucks.
But I suppose it’s about one’s perspective as to the point of life: Is the ideal life one of ease and leisure or of purpose?
We can choose to spite the dragons by voluntarily going extinct, or we can pass down the very best of ourselves and be good examples to raise dragon slayers to take up the mantle, whilst learning from our missteps.
I choose a perspective of hope and responsibility to humanity.
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to overcome a difficult one. –Bruce Lee
There’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for. –Samwise Gamgee
Climate change is the only true existential reason to feel that way.
Everything else is just over focusing on a short term dip. On average things are getting better over the long term. The British Empire collapsed, and so will the American one, and the world will keep on turning and progressing.
Hell kids born these days may have legitimate cures for most forms of cancer by the time they’re old. We won’t.
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My grandma was born pre world war 2, she was literally born during the rise of fascism, then lived through her family getting conscripted and some killed, having to flee to the country side during the bombing raids, then through years of post war rationing.
She then travelled around the world during the 50s, raised a family during the 60s and 70s, and enjoyed a long, happy, fruitful, and fulling retirement / art career from the 80s, through the 90s, and 00s, and just passed away this year.
And there was zero chance she regretted being born.
It’ll be over within the next century or so
is there anything substantial being done about climate change right now though?
Yes.
exemplify?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1jOqyjcO4g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUA1kFSJnYQ
I was going to say more, but basically, watch those videos (or read their references).
Good news sells bad, solar energy is being deployed really quickly and accelerating exponentially, solar has a higher return on investment than gas, coal or oil (about 8x as much in developed markets, according to the IEA), nowadays, green energy is the better one for the economy, and the billionaires just want money, so if it is the green energy that has higher returns, they will invest in that.
Green energy has had 2x as much investment as fossil fuels, and about 80% of that investment is private.
In september 2024 the UK shut down its last coal powerplant.
And I forgot the most important! There have been days where energy has a NEGATIVE COST in some places in the world because of renewables, doesn’t that sound like a financial incentive to use renewables?
you could go on for days, there is a lot being done, we just don’t know about most of it.
I’d argue that technology also, because it is consolidating wealth and power in the hands of fewer and fewer. This creates a positive feedback loop to further entrench their power. They have widened the divide and pulled up the ladder.
Oh, only climate change. Well that’s alright then. /s
Climate change is going to influence everything in our society for the worse: politics, economics, living standards, everything, including the amount of resources available to use for research.
and the world will keep on turning and progressing.
The world will keep on turning, but there is absolutely no factual basis for claiming it will keep on progressing. If anything that is one thing we can learn from history.
Climate change is going to influence everything in our society for the worse: politics, economics, living standards, everything, including the amount of resources available to use for research.
Cite the numbers that make you pessimistic.
If you don’t have numbers, then keep your crystal astrology bad vibes to yourself until you have something to back them.
I’m fucking sick of leftists acting like being moody and pessimistic is a valid political stan stance that does anything.
What kind of numbers are you going after?
I mean, probably you want numbers to prove that climate change is changing politics and economics, etc. for the worse, or maybe just numbers for proving that climate change is real.
But both of these seem like such trivial information that I’m probably just guessing wrong. But because of that, I’d be curious to know: what kind of numbers did you mean?
I can probably help digging up some for you, but not if you just meant “prove that climate change exists”. But, numbers proving that economy will suffer from climate change should be easy to find. (And I think you could just search for them yourself…)
The goal posts are just going to be moved if you produce anything with numbers on it.
VERY specific people would have been better off born 20 years ago.
The vast majority of people would be better off today.
You can imagine in another 20 years that would be different, but almost everyone is better off today than they were 20 years ago, and they will be even better 20 years from now than today.
Specific groups may have a harder time in one time period or another, but society at large is getting better at the world scale over the long term. Hope still exists.
I was born over 40 years ago. I feel like there was a general consensus in the 80’s that kids being born then absolutely would be “better off” than their parents.
Reality is sinking in and we’re seeing that wasn’t the case for a lot of people.
The fact that questionability surrounding “if kids born today will be better off than their parents” even exists today seems to suggest that they will not.
Maybe when it comes to social issues but when I read OP’s post I think of climate change and how it seems to be worsening at an increasing pace.
That and personal privacy and freedom from despotic and fascist government
I’m in my mid thirties and I’ve had a tough time the last few summers. I’m too hot to eat, causing nausea and reducing the amount of water I can drink without vomiting. I’m sure it puts a strain on my vital organs. I wonder how much it’s taking off of my life expectancy already and how much worse it will get over the next decades.
I don’t even live in a (historically) warm place.
I agree with almost all of this, but I think factoring in the imminent catastrophes we know are coming (and actively doing nothing about) will make a sizeable balance of this ‘better off vast majority’ of today.
The heaps of plastic tell a different story and define ‘getting better’ in a daunting light for those just now being born
Climate change related disasters will only get worse over the long term, though.
VERY specific people would have been better off born 20 years ago.
The people pining to repeat the mistakes of the past.
But the point is it is not about the situation today, it is about the situation in 20 years, heck just 10 years, of which these people will live into and experience very soon.
but society at large is getting better at the world scale over the long term.
That used to be true, it is no longer true. And it is not a natural law that this will happen, it is just something a lot of people who have lived in the golden period of the 1950s to early 2000s inferred, without actually considering a larger swath of history than that.
Year of the Linux desktop will be worth it
Windows 11 laptops requires a webcam. The internet now wants selfies to prove that you are a certain age.
The kids now will grow up thinking that this is normal. That is what I am worried about.
We definitely need to be loud about counter-education campaigns against this.
Pushing the masses and the corporate status quo is a Herculean task, but even things as simple as retro computing and electronics / maker clubs and endeavors like Archive.org keep that spirit alive.
Heck, “The Indie Web” is even making a resurgence, many times in pure opposition to what the web has become. Things like this make me hopeful!
That and the impending societal collapse from Climate Change lol
Can I get a source?
Not the original user and can’t find anything since but that requirement seems to have been around for new models https://www.windowscentral.com/starting-2023-windows-11-will-require-laptops-have-cameras
Very. I already dont see a bright future. People born today dont know anything but a broken world. Me being born 2003 atleast saw a slight bit of it
I’m sorry, but you are wildly naive. You’ve seen 22 years of this planet. You have no idea how good you and your potential offspring actually have it.
So how old must one be to not have you pull an ad-hominem instead of addressing the points being made?
Have you maybe considered that it’s precisely the fact that you are older and have seen more of the world actually somewhat functioning that gives you this impression that on the whole things are fine, not to mention material advantages, and it is in fact - your credibility, that should be in question?
I’m old enough and have seen enough to know that I’ve got it better than a lot of people from the present and past. I can’t know for certain what this person has undergone in their 22 years, but because they use Lemmy I can assume they are a relatively stable, middle class person. I may be wrong about that. This person is privileged enough to even be able to type said comment here. To claim they know what a “broken world” looks like is naive in my opinion.
I’m old enough and have seen enough to know that I’ve got it better than a lot of people from the present and past.
I agree. But I also am old enough and have also seen enough to know I have it a lot worse than a lot of people from the present and past. I have known this at 27, at 22, and at 20. These are actually not contradictory statements.
but because they use Lemmy I can assume they are a relatively stable, middle class person
This is a pretty odd assumption. A middle class person to me would be someone who doesn’t struggle to pay rent/bills, and is saving up for a property or is already paying a mortgage without extreme sacrifices. They own property, or in (nowadays) rare circumstances a productive business and at least some of their income thus isn’t generated from wage labour.
This is of course a very conservative definition, but let’s go with that:
An extremely lavish internet connection of half a gigabit down with no caps or limits here in the UK costs about £30 or less a month and a phone or basic PC costs less than £100 even for both, easily.
The council tax alone, before things like electricity, water exceeds that. My rent is 11 times that and is extremely cheap compared to living in the city, which I can only do because I WFH - a rarity.
A median downpayment on a house costs £75,000 for a 30 years long mortgage, this is approximately twice the median, pre-tax income for full-time employees in the UK of £37,430.
Housing price rises, and even rent/bill/cost of living rises have also outpaced both wage growth and even in many cases inflation. Purchasing power is on the whole - down.
Focusing on the only things that have gotten enormously cheap very much contrary to the general trend - like access to social media, internet and electronics is like looking at a really nice tree when the forest is on fire.
Housing prices? That’s your argument? That’s your bleak outlook? Dude, up until relatively recently you couldn’t have a baby without it dying or dying yourself. Common cold? Deceased. There are people alive today who are being murdered because their existence maddens someone and your argument is that your housing costs have gone up.
Get some perspective. Your life isn’t that bad.
Housing prices are everything. We all die. Now or in 50 years barely makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. But imagine dying and your family can’t even grieve because your dead carcass fell behind on rent and was tossed out in the trash by your slumlord to get in an Indian family of 6 for twice the rent in your tiny attic. That’s life.
I am trans and people have threatened to murder me for my existence before I started passing. In both my country of origin and my current country of residence there’s a concentrated institutional effort to effectively extinct people like me from public existence by various forms of lawfare and propagandistic fearmongering.
Don’t get me wrong, the rightoids will come for me, and after that, they will come for you, too, that’s just conservatism for ya, but when they do come, I’d rather meet them in my owned house, filled with guns and ammo, and maybe a nice pet dog by my side that I’d look after and let escape before shit hits the fan, rather than a rented flat I can’t even hang a poster up in without incurring some fine or fee.
And if they don’t come, a house is an asset, the asset, the only productive one in reach now that businesses aren’t viable anymore thanks to landlord and digital feudal lord wealth extraction - it’s retirement and it’s everything, pensions wont be a thing by when I retire, and trust me being a minority with money is much better than being a minority without.
Housing prices? That’s your argument? That’s your bleak outlook?
Can’t afford a home? That means you’re homeless. That’s a crime now. To the prison work camp you go, chop chop.
Dude, up until relatively recently you couldn’t have a baby without it dying or dying yourself.
Still can’t in a lot of places. Not to mention, in America, assuming you both survive you’re now $50k in medical debt for the privelege of reproducing.
Common cold? Deceased.
People still die from pneumonia daily.
There are people alive today who are being murdered because their existence maddens someone and your argument is that your housing costs have gone up.
Two problems can exist at once.
Get some perspective. Your life isn’t that bad.
My friends and family and coworkers are the ones being threatened with murder because their existence maddens someone. Get some perspective.
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Age has nothing to do with how one is naive. Humanity will survive the climat crisis. That is sure…but at what cost…and that is what scares me
I can agree with you on all of that. In this instance my argument is that it’s always been scary. We hide behind a false sense of security. It’s always been this scary. It will always be this scary. We were born to die. Humankind is just like a human life. At one point, whether we like it or not, it will all end.
We are not born to die, just as a book does not start to finish
Unfortunately, there are people in situations where they struggle to get much out of life, and I don’t think any large society without hierarchy and wealth divide has existed
We are not born to die, just as a book does not start to finish
Both of those things are true though. We are born to die, and a book does start with the intent of it finishing.
Maybe I meant “We are born THEN die.”
I’ve got a few decades on the other commenter. We are making gains in some areas: medicine, entertainment, and convenience. It is definitely true that our lives are much better in certain ways.
But then there’s shit that is also going very wrong. Runaway inflation (particularly on housing, healthcare, education, and childcare), loss of community / loneliness epidemic, increasing wealth inequality, increasing political polarization / extremism, climate change, and societal stratification caused by technology. The last 2 in particular are “big ticket” hazards that I don’t see reversing course and will only continue to get worse.
No. I think that things have pretty steadily gotten better over time, and that a great deal of people being upset about now for any given now comes from a tendency to focus on negatives. Could be social media or news media tending to bring negatives to the surface because it drives engagement, political activists aiming to drive or leverage upset, or so forth.
That is completely ignoring the actual man made climate change crisis which is happening at this moment. A situation which is unprecedented in human history. Pretending everything has steadily gotten better over time is not only factually wrong, but deliberate ignorance. And no it is not “big climate change science” which is trying to con you into something.
It will affect us all, whether you have your head stuck in the sand or not.
