People defending this decision or blaming the individual mod is wild. Gabe is famously libertarian and known to encourage moderation (or rather lack thereof) in line with his libertarian worldview on Steam. This is unfortunately very much on brand for the platform and Gabe himself.
There are differences between the political stances of Libertarianism and Islam. And while those two realms of religious/social beliefs are somewhat incompatible, outright hate speech is not generally acceptable on the platform.
In this particular case, the mod should be removed.
outright hate speech is not generally acceptable on the platform
This has been on Steam for almost 4 years. Valve doesn’t give a fuck. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1853200/TYRONE_vs_COPS/
They are not any less compatible than any other religion and liberty.
Every religion has been through phases of being more or less open to interpretation. Right now islam is undergoing reformation, which is always kind of a bloody affair, just look at the start of protestantism.
But that does mean that a whole large group of Muslims is starting to realise you can believe in god without listening to the silly parts of the texts (like what to eat) same as when Christians started allowing their people to eat pig and shrimps.
Don’t just lump these people in one big group together. Religion is one thing, politics another. I grew up around Muslims in a Nordic country, and none of them are any more religious than my grandparents were Christians (that is, exactly enough to be able to claim that they are)
They are not any less compatible than any other religion and liberty.
That’s arguable. There are some parts that align well and some core parts that the religion specifically forbids that Libretarianism demands. This is a decent reference https://eathealthy365.com/libertarianism-and-islam-a-comprehensive-compatibility-guide/
“a Muslim cannot be a philosophically consistent, “doctrinaire” libertarian without abandoning core tenets of their faith.”
It goes a long way beyond conceptually non-orthodox.
I’ve worked with Muslims for ages, looked into the religion to understand them better and I’ve worked with Libretarians and dug into that because they have a LOT to unpack.
I’d say on the whole, the Muslims have a lot stronger grasp on their religion than the Libertarians have on their core tenets.
Now that this is out of the way, would you care to comment on my point that Libertarians don’t notably support hate speech as a core tenet? Because that’s the majority of my point.
Maybe not as a core Tenet, but it does have a… lets call it a coincidental overlap.
Could we get a link to the game?
Edit: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2451100/Little_Rocket_Lab/
Wishlisting a game, even if you don’t plan to buy it, can increase visibility of a game in Steam.
You can also mark reviews as not helpful.
Looks like a cross between stardew and factorio so gona give it a try this weekend
You should be free to be rude online. It’s useful to know who the rude ones are so you can avoid them. Censoring is a bad idea in this case, and I believe Valve has taken the correct stance.
Expressing that a group of people shouldn’t exist is way further than being rude.
People have always been horrible. It’s better for them to it themselves than it is to hide them.
Sticks and stones…
looks like its just a mod drunk on a bit of power rather then Valve itself.
That may be the case but it is frustrating that companies can hide behind the bad actions of those working on their behalf or are an independent subsidiary that a normal person can’t distinguish between.
Valve’s stance can be determined by their action or inaction on this.
“They’re not all white males so it’s DEI”
These people are just as annoying as the people that cry about there not being enough diversity. Just don’t think about the character’s races or whatever.
Anyone gonna post the TOS or we all just gonna wave our dicks around in the comments
Yeah, what’s wrong with supporting the arbitary, unnearned hatred of ethnic groups?
Muslim isn’t really an ethnic group though. It’s a religion represented in every race.
It isn’t a specific organization of any one particular faith though. It’s a category. I don’t know how many Muslim organized groups there are, but my guess is that they all don’t agree on who they consider Muslim. If you want to say ‘‘this particular organization is responsible for…’’ that can be accurate and holding that specific group of people or individuals in that group accountable for their actions is valid. But to say ‘this entire category of people I can blame or hold accountable of any and all of the people I consider Muslim’s actions’ that’s prejudice and bigotry, or whatever you want to call hatred based on category.
I’m not arguing that all Muslims are the same, although I agree there are those who would, and they would be wrong and biased. We see the same generalizations about every type of group though.
I think it’s a perfectly valid review. It is stupid and racist, but that’s clearly on the reviewer and not the developer.
With any rating system you’ll always get someone leaving a negative rating without valid reason. At least with this one, anyone who reads it knows they can ignore it.
It’s a valid review until some people start saying same thing for Christians and Jews and suddenly the policy will change to “minimize spreading hate”.
I still agree that this falls under hate speech and should be removed for that reason.
I just don’t think that there is any other reason for its removal, so Steam keeping there is at least consistent for now.
The only thing we cannot afford to tolerate is intolerance itself.
have you any exemple of that or it s just pure speculation on your part ?
I used to work for a company that made blinds that people could order online and would then have to put up themselves and one person left a negative review because they dropped the set of blinds on their head while trying to install it.
The owner was delighted because it was such a stupid 1 star review. Anyone reading it would just laugh at the person leaving the review and wouldn’t think negatively of the company.
Of course the problem is that the review influences the overall score, and people won’t know why the poor review, they’ll just know that the number is impacted.
Of course, that says, if that is someone’s review, they can just only or make something up to have that impact… only hope is for things to be well under the lizardman’s constant.
I think steam top and tails the reviews, so if anything is way out of range it doesn’t count towards the score, or at least it’s impact is reduced. It not as simple as an average of the scores.
The review is mean to say they don’t believe races should be in games they play. It would be like saying you don’t think X race of person should be allowed on TV. We’re trying to get past that as a society, and it’s not going to come about by coddling these racist fucks.
Are Muslims a race of their own?
Are you being pedantic, racist, or both? Asking for a friend.
Are you stupid? Muslim is not a race. Saying that doesn’t make me a racist. Also I have parents who are Muslim and I don’t consider them a different race then me, a non-believer.
Ohh big man with the insults. Nice, tough, macho.
Got more in you, need to flex on me some more?
lol says the guy who calls people racist over a disagreement
ohh also, big man, where did I call you a racist, I can’t seem to find that.
There you go, that’s ovbiously the takeaway from Libretarians and Muslims have differences and there shouldn’t be hate speech in the forum.
You are a saint, let me tell ya’ll
tbf it doesn’t say “i don’t like muslims”
https://steamcommunity.com/id/breakzoras/recommended/2451100/I mean. The sentiment is kinda the same in this case. But yeah, do t use quotations if it isn’t a quote.
No, it’s significantly worse than just that.
it is quite clear that the reviewer is racist, but they didn’t write anything that is racist
Did I suggest that they did? No, the problem is that every single line in that shit is trying to erase a portion of humanity that already exists. It’s not just normalising hatred, it’s making a normative statement that anything which acknowledges the mere existence of anyone unlike this bezoar of fetid smegma must be some attempt to brainwash all five neurons in that glob of rotting meat they have the temerity to call their ‘brain’
The whole movement is gaslighting, but on a societal scale.
I don’t like Christians
I don’t like anyone that wants to make laws based on their favorite fairytale.
For clarification… People named Christian, people of Christian belief, or both?
People named Christian have been good people in my life. So far…
Jesus Fucking Christ christians can be so freaking annoying sometimes
thats okay! as long as your bullying no one.
just sayingI don’t think I could if I tried lol. Maybe I’m weak or maybe that’s just empathy.
Edit: I actually don’t hate any Christian people that I know. I’ve never personally met someone that wished me ill or treated me badly because of their religious faith. I also live in a fairly conservative area of California with plenty of MAGA flags around. Even my MAGA neighbors smile and wave at me. I’m brown with a large beard too. I’m lucky is what I’m getting at. I know a lot of places aren’t as accepting as my home. I feel for those that don’t feel comfortable leaving their homes (or even in their homes)
Based dev and I wishlistrd that game because it looks fun and I want to support them for the response alone, but I think I kind of agree with that decision, or can at least see where it’s coming from. Disliking a game for its political message seems entirely valid to me, if someone made an otherwise amazing game but the message is “hitler was great actually”, I’d like to be able to negatively review that. And since it’s not review bombing but actual individual idiots, it shouldn’t have a big impact wrt to the ratio. If anything I read a review like that and become more interested in the game. Allowing it at least keeps them honest.
Though “it has muslims” as a negative review reason still seems like it should be removed just for being racist (or if i were to give the reviewer way more benefit of the doubt than they deserve, sounding racist. I guess in theory they could just not like religions in games, but let’s be real they’d love if it were christians instead).
Problem is that “Hitler” is an individual while “Muslim” is multiple groups of people all with different views.
Also yeah it’s usually used as synonym for “brown people.”
So the hypothetical wouldn’t be okay if we changed hitler to nazis since that’s a group of hitlers.
Yeah all nazis are fascist as they are defined by that.
What do all Muslims have in common?
I mean all branches, all backgrounds, all genders, in entire history.What is something you can define all Muslims by? Mumins and munafiqs, sufis and maturidis, religious and non-religious, child and adult, Ahl al-Ra’y and Ahl al-Hadith, etc.
You can’t really classify people by something and then make assumptions about them based on something else.
That would be like republicans saying “I am not a Nazi because I am not german.”
Its a “valid,” review in that it does describe how they dont like the game and why, and hinestpy thats better than 90% of reviews. However, and this is a big however, racists should not get a pass and should be banned and removed for being racist. We should not brook these type of people and especially not give them a platform. It only makes things worse. Stamp the problem out with prejudice.
Does this reflect Mod or the organisation? Perhaps lighting up for the organisation directly or as here, via wider social/ community discussions?
Props to the dev. Fuck em.
“Also has Muslims”
Isn’t that the case for most modern FPS games? Is it only an issue when you don’t kill them?
Hey look, free publicity! Based Dev.
Great responses from the dev. Steam moderation really needs an overhaul, whichever moderators or automated systems that are in place really don’t do a good job. There’s a lot of hate in reviews and Steam discussions that should just lead to people’s accounts being permanently muted across the platform and preferably in games too where possible.
Steam forums are overrun by Russian propaganda bots.
“Please include a trans flag for representation in your video game!” is obviously rage bait for incels that are on there. And let me tell you guys, there are a LOT of incels/nazis all over Steam.
All this to say, Valve REALLY needs to work on their moderation platform however they can. It is a dark spot on an otherwise good platform. (I don’t play multiplayer games, so I don’t know anything about their gambling habits to make a comment on.)
That rage bait is mainly because Valve added Steam Points, so people say dumb shit to bait awards. They should remove Steam awards giving points to other people, I don’t why they ever thought that was a good idea.
Oh, definitely. I can see it often enough to confirm. I think some people have caught on to the “grift” so to speak where they (and I) just block those accounts now. Shouldn’t have to, but that’s how it is for now.
What a legend.
You know, as a vehicle to have the developers respond in that quippy manner, I’d support leaving those comments up (also shows not to pay attention to any other reviews they post).
Literally buying this game right now to support them, looks like a game I’d enjoy too which is a bonus
islam is my facourite religion because they love gay folks and women so much
i haven’t looked up on their trans stuff they might be like jk for all i know
Removed by mod
It would be interesting to test with other groups of people. For example, when happens if all my review says is “I don’t like jews” or “I don’t like Americans/Russians/Chinese people”.
Wouldn’t a more comparable test be “I don’t like Christians” or “I don’t like vegans”? If they say Jews it’s often racist, not about their personal beliefs.
“Muslims” is often used in a racist way to mean brown people, not just refer to a religious group. “Jews” is used in the same way, to refer to an ethnic group as often as a religion.
The two are used by racists in almost the exact same way. “Christians” are mainly white, so racists dont often attack them at all, especailly since a large contingent of the racists are christian.
Is that a US thing? I’ve never seen that use in Europe (yet?)
You’ve never seen “Jews” used to refer to the ethnic group… in europe?
I should’ve been more specific that I was talking about Muslims
I think they’re talking about referring to Muslims as an ethnic group. Jews does literally mean either the religion or the ethnic group.
So long as you’re equal opportunity with your hate it’s good to go.
The “Chinese” one, I’m seeing it more and more from western reviewers.
deleted by creator
You people are the modern version of jobless housewives. Some random dev baits for simpathy points and everyone bites, hook line and sinker. As far as we know, those are bots from a guerrilla marketing company and not organic reviews. Don’t feed the trolls with attention, it only broadcasts their message!
Any evidence to support your claims?
its not a claim, its asserted as a plausible explanation for factsthats, uh, what a claim is. my bad.
Some random dev baits for simpathy points
its asserted as a plausible explanation for facts
Holy mother of strawman, In which world is that not a claim?
How did he reach to these “facts” without claiming it?
what a brain dead take
plenty enough bigotry in the US alone to think this is real before some dev con job
So it is a claim then. Because there’s no actual evidence that the scenario being suggested is happening. Sure it’s possible it’s happening but no actual evidence. Therefore the best it can be is a claim.
Like words have meaning you know. You can’t just decide they don’t because it’s inconvenient for your particular narrative.
