• MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I would be willing to bet there are more people in the US using Kelvin in their jobs than Rankine.

        Lb-mole? That one I’m not sure.

        To me, these wanna-be scientific units are weird, like, just use metric at that point 😅

        Also 1000th of an inch. Like, come on! You’re just teasing us

      • mipadaitu@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        That’s one of the ways proposed for terraforming Venus. Put in a sun shield to freeze the planet, let the CO2 snow down, then process the CO2 into something that can sequester it away so it doesn’t just go back into the atmosphere after removing the sun shield.

        Of course none of that is technically possible right now, but it’s a lot easier on a planet that has no (known) life to destroy while working through the process.

    • Eiri@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      Wait, does it? Are joules in thermal energy per kelvin a purely linear relationship?

      • Verat@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        For the most part, it varies by material and state of matter, but assuming the chemical composition doesnt change and no material changes phase, then it is pretty close to linear in most materials.

        • PmMeFrogMemes@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          hmm but there will surely be a lot of phase changes with a drop in energy so substantial. we need our top scientists on this asap

      • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz
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        4 months ago

        Fun fact: gas pressure changes linearly with temperature. If you make one of these plots at mild conditions you can extrapolate the line down to zero pressure and measure where absolute zero temperature is

  • RustyNova@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Granted. Celsius now range from 0 to 50

    Edit: … or whatever unit you prefer. It’s still the same

  • Zerthax@reddthat.com
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    4 months ago

    Reminds me of a time one of my friends was happy that it was going to warm up and said something like “it’s going to be twice as warm tomorrow”. It was going from maybe 20F to 40F or something.

    That led to an interesting discussion.

  • frezik@midwest.social
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    4 months ago

    This knowledge comes in handy with marketing BS around CPU coolers. If an aftermarket cooler gets a CPU to 35C when the stock cooler is at 70C, marketing will sometimes claim it cut temperatures in half.

    • jws_shadotak@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      I mean… that’s literally half though

      edit: I am not a science man and I am in over my head in this argument

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        But it’s not.

        Celsius and Faernheit are interval scales, not rational scales. The absolute change from one number to the next is consistent, but since you can go into the negatives, 1 is not double 2.

        Kelvin and Rankine are rational because they use an absolute zero.

      • FiskFisk33@startrek.website
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        4 months ago

        to make the argument even simpler, that phrase wouldn’t even mean the same thing to an english person as it would to an american.

        In fahrenheit those temps would convert to 95f and 158f.

        • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          But °C was mentioned in the units, and its well understood that 0°C is a cold temperature for humans.

          I’m not a fan of marketing doublespeak either, but I think the right scale and right terminology was used here. They cut the temperature in half, in Celsius, on the basis that 0°C is very cold.

          • FiskFisk33@startrek.website
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            4 months ago

            Thats where the physics comes in. if the temperature is halved in terms of celsius from 70° to 35°, if in your case the temperature starts at 100°, the same energy difference would only bring the temperature down to something closer to 65° than 50°.

            the specific cooling capacity of the cooler in question only “halves” the temperature if you start at a very specific point.

            • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              My entire argument rests on the premise that 0°C is a rational start point for both C and F, but I concede that halving something doesn’t explain absolute changes

          • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            But centigrade isn’t a measure of absolute units and is disingenuous. Using your argument it requires the consumer/reader to make a number of inferences or assumptions which isn’t a good method of communication in general. It is perfectly valid to say that the cooler took CPU temperatures from 70°C to 35°C.

            Why not just say that. It’s an impressive stat!

            Scales exist for a reason. Cutting 70°C in half is by definition -101.5°C. But let’s assumed somehow everyone is on the same page and that anything below 0°C should just be ignored in this specific scenario and not any other (confusing right?), saying the temperature was cut in half is still confusing! Half from where? Did it go from 20°C to 10°C? From 80°C to 40°C? It just doesn’t mean anything and as said before I would argue just stating the numbers is more impressive and informative.

            • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              I agree that the numbers should just speak for themselves

              Cutting 70°C in half is by definition -101.5°C

              I’d argue here that no one would make this leap nor mental calculation, and most people would just divide X by 2 and gauge what the resulting Y is based on their familiarity with the weather.

              it requires the consumer/reader to make a number of inferences or assumptions which isn’t a good method of communication in general

              They still have to make these inferences to understand whether or not 70 to 35 is a remarkable feat or not.

              If it’s 30 / 2 = 15, people would think “Huh, 15 is pretty cool compared to room temperature ~ 20ish , that’s significant”. If it’s 90 / 2 = 45, people would think “Huh, both 90 and 45 are pretty hot, but it seems like a meaningful reduction nonetheless.”

              I dunno, maybe I’m overdefending this

              • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                All I can say is that in my professional career where I have to write technical reports and summarize technical information I would never represent it that way, and I would be concerned if a colleague, customer, or supplier did it even if they were communicating it to a non technical audience. I would also call out my employer or management if they ever tried to change the representation of the data to something like this.

                That could say more about me than anything else, but that’s where I am at.

      • frezik@midwest.social
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        4 months ago

        If you convert those temperatures to Kelvin, they become 308K and 343K. Since Kelvin is absolute and we’re measuring the same material, this tells you how much more thermal energy is there and their actual proportion to each other.

        • jws_shadotak@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          thanks, this makes a lot more sense.

          That being said, 70C down to 35C is a huge difference, relative to the temperature ranges we live in

          • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I just want to chime in and say I appreciate your willingness to absorb knowledge, as well as not doing the “I was mistaken so I’ll delete my comment” thing so that other people can read along and learn as well.

      • fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de
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        4 months ago

        Do you also say “the temperature in the freezer has doubled” when it goes from -12°C to -24°C? Not saying that would be disingenuous with your arguments.

      • fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de
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        4 months ago

        That’s not how it works, an “idle” CPU is already generating a not insignificant amount of heat. That why you measure the difference against ambiant air if you’re at all serious about it.

        • neatchee@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          For anyone questioning this logic, try running your “idle” CPU without a heatsink of any kind.

  • taiyang@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I use this as an example for interval vs ratio; you can’t halve Celsius because it’s an interval scale where zero is arbitrary. Kelvin is ratio as it has an absolute zero-- you very much can halve it and doom near the entire planet next summer

      • LostXOR@fedia.io
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        4 months ago

        How so? Absolute zero is the coldest possible temperature, it’s physically impossible for an object to be colder. Saying that’s arbitrary is like saying it’s arbitrary to define 0 m/s as not moving.

          • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            If the earth rotates but the object doesnt does it move?

            If the object remains still in space but the earth moves away from it, does it move?

        • owsei@programming.dev
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          4 months ago

          Every decision is arbitrary in some way. We, as humans, defined it would be better to arrange the periodic table a certain way, based on characteristics of the elements, but the characteristics chosen are arbitrary. We could’ve just chosen a different set for ordering, like alphabetical.

          Tho, that’s a correct (IIRC) yet weird usage of “arbitrary”, and since language exists to talk, not to be correct, we might as well not use this definition of arbitrary and stick to what conveys information better.

          Edit: I’m wrong! perhaps “correct” was the word I meant to say, not sure tho.

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          It’s still assuming a scale. It’s actually worse because the scale is implied by context.

          • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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            4 months ago

            What? What context? The scale is the same as Celsius which is derived from the properties of water. And 0K is when there is absolutely no heat energy in the thing being measured. There is no context where this is not the case.

            • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              The one where a human is speaking in English and referring to a season and the temperature is more than significant context. I hope this helped you; it seems that you’re one of those people who lack the capacity to infer from available data.

              • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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                4 months ago

                People don’t use Kelvin when referring to seasons. Sure, there’s plenty of ambiguity if someone says it’s 32° out without specifying the units, and you can infer from context, but that has nothing to do with Kelvin starting at absolute zero. Saying “degrees” immediately rules out Kelvin as a unit.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            Zero kelvin is very contextually useful. Put very simply it literally relates to the motion of atoms. At zero, they move zero.

          • stembolts@programming.dev
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            4 months ago

            The context of… reading the fabric of the universe?

            You’re right, that is totally irrelevant to… a physicist.

            I see you’re trolling, so I look forward to your condescending response, but to be successfully condescending you have to be at least somewhat convincing in displaying intelligence, if you can manage that then this whole argumentative act will go much better and people will get much angrier.

            TLDR, Try the same troll tactic but with less incompetence for better results.

          • fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de
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            4 months ago

            The scale doesn’t matter, double is always double. No matter if expressed in 1m is half of 2m, or 3ft is half of 6ft. Same is true for temperature, als long as the zero point is fixed.

    • Ultraviolet@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      90 F to Kelvin, halved and converted back, is approximately -190.

      It’s difficult to find data on what exposure to that temperature would do, the threshold for an extreme cold warning (meaning absolutely do not go outside without heavy protection unless you want necrotic frostbite) is about 150 F warmer than that.

      • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        It depends on conductive and convective transfer at that point. The atmosphere would be vastly different as that’s well below the point where CO2 would snow out but you should still have enough gasses to flash freeze you.

    • ArtieShaw@fedia.io
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      4 months ago

      I think it’s fairly well known that there are no good genies. But otherwise, true.

        • ArtieShaw@fedia.io
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          4 months ago

          I was kind of thinking along the same lines. But to be truly ironclad, would you need a genie lawyer? Like not a lawyer who specialized in Genie Law, but an actual genie?