Christians face harassment and disruption in Beijing crackdown on religion, US government agency reports

In their effort to “exert total control” over religion and to “sinicise” Catholic and Protestant Christianity, the authorities have “ordered the removal of crosses from churches [and] replaced images of Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary with pictures of President Xi Jinping,” the report said.

The report concluded that “every facet of religious life for Buddhists, Catholics and Protestant Christians, Muslims, and Taoists” was facing pressure to incorporate CCP ideology, and religious elements considered contradictory to the state’s political agenda were being eradicated.

    • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
      401·
      3 months ago

      Upon further consideration, it was decided that perhaps what Marx had meant was that certain varieties of opium were, in fact, good for the people.

      • jmcs@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        101·
        3 months ago

        That’s not even a Chinese innovation. At least the Chinese gave Mao a proper burial instead of desecrating his corpse Christian saint/Lenin style.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
      211·
      3 months ago

      Same shit, different century. Ever look up the actual history of Christmas or Easter? They were pagan holidays and Christian rulers forced everyone to jam as much Christian stuff into them as they could.

      It’s literally one of the oldest tricks in the book.

    • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
      20·
      3 months ago

      Honestly, concerns over the possibility that religion might be a political opponent and trying to neutralize it by replacing figures with one’s own are not new.

      It’s just a little unusual to have it happening in 2024 between gods and secular leaders.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_syncretism

      Religious syncretism is the blending of religious belief systems into a new system, or the incorporation of other beliefs into an existing religious tradition.

      This can occur for many reasons, where religious traditions exist in proximity to each other, or when a culture is conquered and the conquerors bring their religious beliefs with them, but do not succeed in eradicating older beliefs and practices.

      • kent_eh@lemmy.caEnglish
        41·
        3 months ago

        concerns over the possibility that religion might be a political opponent and trying to neutralize it by replacing figures with one’s own are not new.

        It’s been a pretty common thing that dictators have done throughout recorded history.

        It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing with the specifics of the church, it’s about eliminating divided loyalties.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
      191·
      3 months ago

      As a Muslim this is one of the times I’m glad paintings of humans and animals are haram in Islam. We don’t got none of that shit in mosques (or anywhere else, really).

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
          3·
          3 months ago

          I mean yes, but that only violates the sanctity of these mosques, which is to be fair a fucking atrocity as far as Islam is concerned. They are, however, unable to violate Islam itself, is what I’m trying to say.

      • Jin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        93·
        3 months ago

        Yeah Muslims are a bit sensitive when it comes these kinds of things

        • Maalus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          111·
          3 months ago

          That’s like saying “catholics are a bit sensitive when it comes to eating meat on fridays”. It’s a nonsense statement

          • Jin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            12·
            3 months ago

            Well you could look at incidence where things got out of hand like the “Muhammad cartoons crisis”.

            Or just look what happened in Sweden with the Quran

          • Danquebec@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            111·
            3 months ago

            I think Muslims take this more seriously because, as someone who grew up in a region where most people identified Catholic (and most of the rest just had no religion) but didn’t practice much, I wasn’t even aware of that rule.

            • Saleh@feddit.orgEnglish
              7·
              3 months ago

              It is quite weird with catholics also. You should not make an image of god is part of the commandments, yet there is all the depictions of some old bearded white dude like in the sixtine chapel.

              • the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                3 months ago

                Technically the “give something up for Lent” thing isn’t a requirement. It’s encouraged, as long as it’s actually leading you to be a better Christian, but it isn’t needed. The only requirements, in the US, are:

                1. On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, you fast from food. The minimum that counts is, basically, one meal and two snacks.
                2. On every Friday of Lent and also Ash Wednesday, you abstain from eating the meat of land-dwelling animals. In the US, the bishops have said it’s alright to substitute this penance with something else for the rest of the year; but during Lent, it’s a requirement.
      • Saleh@feddit.orgEnglish
        82·
        3 months ago

        Also Islam rejects intercessors. We pray to Allah s.w.t. and only to him. We asked for forgiveness for our sins from him and him alone. The prophets and messangers a.s. were all humans of best character and faith, which is why they were honored but also challenged with their tasks.

        This is why countries like China are particularly oppressive towards Islam. The faith is structured in a way that makes it more difficult to coopt it into exerting control over people for a government. Unfortunately we see (partly) successfull attempts at it like in Saudi Arabia. But they also control two of the holyest sites with Meqqa and Medina.

        If i understand correctly China is oppressing Buddhism more strongly too because it is also not well controllable. But i have to admit that i know little about the details of buddhist spirituality/religion.

        • lemme in@lemm.eeOPEnglish
          4·
          3 months ago

          Most religions in China get the same treatment from the CCP.

          Christian communities have had similar experiences.

          In 2016, thousands of crosses were torn down from churches throughout Zhejiang Province. The authorities have also broken up congregations that have not been approved by the state, while church leaders have been arrested and jailed.

          The demolition of domes, crosses and minarets and their replacement by Chinese-styled tiled roofs and Buddhist-styled pagodas. It involves mandatory patriotic education for Buddhist, Christian and Muslim clergy and it entails party-approved sermons and prayers.

          South of Xinjiang in Tibet, the authorities have restricted the practice of Tibetan Buddhism over the last decade. Religious festivals have been banned more frequently and government employees, teachers and students have been barred from participating in religious activities.

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/26/a-jealous-god-china-remakes-religions-in-its-own-image

        • vin@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
          31·
          3 months ago

          Rejecting intercessors has not worked out, has it? See Sunni vs Shia.

        • friendlymessage@feddit.orgEnglish
          2·
          3 months ago

          There are many more examples than just Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan comes to mind but also many other Muslim countries use Islam and Shari’a law to control the population or use religious laws as an excuse for their authoritarianism. No religion is free of that.

      • phar@lemmy.mlEnglish
        46·
        3 months ago

        That’s one of the dumber things I’ve heard today. Luckily it’s still early, plenty more dumb stuff to read.

          • discount_door_garlic@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            Whether they were condescending or not “militant athiesm” is a ridiculous hyperbole - people are free to believe whatever they want, just as anybody else is free to comment on that belief system when theyre not a part of it.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
              2·
              3 months ago

              just as anybody else is free to comment on that belief system when theyre not a part of it.

              Yes, but “haha religion bad” is a trite point that contributes nothing to the discussion.

          • phar@lemmy.mlEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            Neither? Being glad art is banned for any reason is dumb to me.

    • Fades@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1617·
      3 months ago

      because China has always been oh so welcoming of other religions right? Sources are great but calling this an outrageous claim is a bit much given the historical context.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        321·
        3 months ago

        I mean, it’s a pretty big step from “we need to pre-approve priests” to “actually, your religion is about something completely different now”.

        And, more importantly, it’s the Telegraph. If it was the Guardian I’d go “gee whiz, that’s a whole new level, very unexpected”.

        • Womble@lemmy.worldEnglish
          34·
          3 months ago

          replaced images of Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary with pictures of President Xi Jinping.

          Its not saying actually Xi is your god now, its just making churches one more place where you see the dear leader. Still bad but not at the insane level of trying to rewrite one of the world’s largest religions.

        • Squizzy@lemmy.worldEnglish
          17·
          3 months ago

          Why is the telegraph bad, I really like their journalists they have always come across well.

            • nickiwest@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              3 months ago

              Yes. Yes it does.

              From Media Bias/Fact Check:

              Bias Rating: RIGHT

              Factual Reporting: MIXED

              Country: United Kingdom

              MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE

              Media Type: Newspaper

              Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic

              MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY

              • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
                5·
                3 months ago

                Yep. That tracks with what I was remembering. Sometimes their stuff is fine, sometimes it’s questionable right-wing rage-baiting.

            • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              3 months ago

              They write anti Polish people propaganda as well. Remember the British elites hate poor people harder than they hate brown people.

  • ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.worldEnglish
    321·
    3 months ago

    she came into the manger, way overdue,

    and plonked herself down next to the ewe.

    then – leaning back on the cow –

    did she, the great chairman mao,

    immaculately embirth winnie the pooh.

  • TokenBoomer@lemmy.worldEnglish
    213·
    3 months ago

    Found this:

    While we found evidence of both the removal of crosses from churches and the replacement of holy images with that of Xi in China, we find that the reports on the replacement of holy images with Xi to be potentially misleading in some ways in the social media posts.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      93·
      3 months ago

      "During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

      If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."

      -Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds

    • nickiwest@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 months ago

      To be honest, I don’t trust The Telegraph any more than I trust The Onion. At least The Onion is straightforward about what they are.

  • BigBenis@lemmy.worldEnglish
    17·
    3 months ago

    I need to see the nativity scene version of this! But with Xi’s old face on baby Jesus.

  • Gerudo@lemm.eeEnglish
    186·
    3 months ago

    When I see tankie lemmings, I just point to this type of stuff…

  • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
    10·
    3 months ago

    Hail, Mary Mao, full of grace,
    the Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou amongst women
    and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Xi.
    Holy Mary Mao, Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners,
    now and at the hour of our death.
    Amen.

    Hail, Mary Mao, full of grace…

    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.socialEnglish
      1·
      3 months ago

      There’s a really good mod for Crusader Kings 2 where you play in a post-apocalypse America and one of the religion groups is Americanism, with the Founding Fathers as gods.

      It’s supposed to be a commentary on the concept of the American civil religion but it’s mostly just awesome because NYC is still a Republic that follows one of the branches, and one of the starting families that rules Gotham is the Waynes :)

      Reestablishing America as Batman wasn’t quite what I expected from a CK2 mod but it was the best possible way to say goodbye to the system before CK3 dropped.