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- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
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This for everytime some one suggests an idea. It’s not your job to snipe it because it’s too lofty an idea. If it’s a good idea, help hold it up.
And little victories. Healing by ten thousand stitches.
However, you have to be careful that your movement doesn’t get infiltrated, because that will hurt your movement. You have to be careful who you are walking with, and what their end goals are.
Don’t protest for a better health care system with people that are antiscientific. Don’t protest for a free Palestine together with antisemitic people. Do not let them blur your message.
One thing I’ve been grappling with is I would completely support a violent overthrow of the Trump admin, as I don’t consider him legitimate because of the insurrection clause, but I would never ever even discuss the subject with a bunch of tankies or anarchists because they’re just supporting destruction of our protected rights all the same as the enemy.
That sounds like something an enemy would say, right before they disagree with my objectively correct opinion about some minor thing and reveal their true nature.
I feel personally attacked by your vague statement and therefore see you as an enemy for life
the importance of that relatively minor thing also matters though, we can’t just purity test everybody for everything, even if it’s objectively correct, not all of it matters.
I would rather lose all my rights than stand beside ten thousand men who think neopronouns are cringe.
It would be impossible to achieve real change without your rigidity. Thank you.
Thank you more, for recognizing that sacrificing principles is bad and unnecessary, and victory is optional.
I hope we can also agree that anyone who unironically watches South Park are problematic and must be actively shunned if discovered.
And atheists who won’t suspend their theophobia for Islam are even worse.
I just felt like those groups needed to be mentioned for no particular reason.
true i hate winning, i hope we keep losing so we can keep up the facade of pretending to be good instead of actually doing something to solve the problem, because we would probably fuck up.
I personally deeply desire to be a noble loser and a perfect victim.
To die ethically unassailable, with no questionable acquaintances and no discord with progressive consensus, that is the goal we should all strive for.
Our flesh may be weak and vulnerable, but at least my spirit is secularily sainty, perfect, untarnished by compromise and realpolitik.
I. Am. Unproblematic.
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Like the Muslim voters in Michigan that voted for Trump because they didn’t like Harris’ support of Israel and then immediately had ICE breathing down their necks
This is true, but it’s a good reminder that most people don’t act like this meme. We should remember that minorities don’t owe us their vote, and we should stand up for them
As a transwoman I’m suddenly used to abuse from false allies who see me as an “Guaranteed Vote”
They’re not wrong, but only because it’s a two-party system and a true enemy is worse than a false friend.
Yes, this is the attitude they are referring to.
Right? Like, if someone’s promising Free Grog and Good Times, they’re probably LeChuck in disguise.
Yes, I made an Escape From Monkey Island reference.
First time I played that game, I felt stupid for not realizing the guy named “Charles L. Charles” with the same voice actor as LeChuck, was in fact, LeChuck.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I’m glad that you are here and having a good time.
Maaaan now i got spoilered for a game that came out many many many years ago! Thaaanks!!! Angry emoji, angry emoji
Especially since the joke behind the Charles L Charles character is how easy it’s supposed to be to see the twist coming, and my autistic ass just took the character at face value.
Tbh i might have been the same, my fellow 'tism friend.
Wow! This is the second best Monkey Island reference I’ve ever seen!
Exactly. If you don’t want to be deported, you’re going to have to be okay with genociding some folks.
Or they could have voted for Harris and not had to deal with mass deportations and then tried to stop the genocidal acts. Instead they voted to continue the genocidal acts AND get deported. If the problem persists either way, why vote to fuck yourself twice?
WhY Do YoU SuPpOrT GeNoCiDe?
It’s an unfortunate but necessary genocide
Edit: I don’t support it!! But at this point it’s pretty clear it’s necessary, no? As liberals we need to be honest with ourselves at least.
i guess you need to spell out for me exactly how wiping out an entire culture of innocent human beings in cold blood is “necessary”
idk if you’re just trolling for attention but saying shit like that and calling it “unfortunate”… dude wtf
This comment was reported. It does not violate our rules. Downvotes are appropriate here, convincing arguments even more so. Carry on.
I’ll bite. What do we as liberals get out of this genocide? Are you gonna say our stock in Lockheed will go up? Because not all of us liberals have stock in Lockheed.
Well the democrats were very clearly pro genocide so idk why you would think it’s not part of the liberal platform??? Don’t the democrats represent us?
Everyone see what this person is doing? Thats the point of the original post.
I’m trying to figure out whether it’s an LLM or not. I’m always interested to see how far they’ve advanced.
I tried this trick on Substack once a the account was deleted soon after. I’ll test it out here
Idgi, if that’s the case then why is one of the top comments an unprompted criticism of antigenocide protesters? That’s not divisive?
For this among a dozen other excellent reason, including and especially being generally incompetent at achieving their stated goals, Democrats do not represent me.
We all can learn a little, from a little machine learning. In this essay I will…
This!!
I see people shaming others for using Proton etc. It’s not perfect sure, but it’s a step in the right direction away from google.
Any step in the right direction should be praised.
Leftist broadly have gotten used to attacking their own side because they’re not the angry, mindless orcs that the right nurtures, and thus it’s simply easier to police your own side and win arguments against other people with minds than try to butt heads against orcs who don’t care and have no interest in thoughtful conversation.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
that’s great, but does it actually accomplish anything? That’s what really matters, it doesn’t matter if you run some weirdo out of town because he moderately disagrees with you, if he just goes to the next town over, where more people are waiting for him…
Well sure, but that does pretty much rehash the comment you responded to.
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Huh!? I dont pay attention to US news and i am already out of the loop!? Comon maaaan!
This is 100% something a few people here on Lemmy need to see.
Its something people should have seen and accepted on or before November 5th.
Now I kind of just want to see the anti-electoralists suffer. Even if it means I suffer.
You mean Lemmy, the website that has the broad and diverse userbase who primarily lean far-left to even-further-left? Everyone is here exactly so they can fight with people who aren’t on the right and can be debated with or attacked without a frustrating, pointless argument with someone who can’t even read.
Nobody here is going to read this as anything other than “You need to go after the REAL disguised nazis in your midst!” Everyone is here to escape having to fight orcs, so people here fight each other.
edit: keep downvoting… or if you rather spend your energy on something educational to yourself, challenge yourself to find a single contentious thread or post here that isn’t niche groups of leftists thought-clashing with each other about who’s a better leftist. I’m not saying you’re all bad, I’m saying you’re all making a lot of mistakes which is why we get trounced constantly and we now have a fucking dictator undoing democracy. We are not victims here, we are failures. Get better. I know it sucks to hear, but if you feel called out, you’re definitely the target and I hope you feel great levels of shame and accountability.
I have never been more disgusted with my own side as I have in the last few years, and you’re still the best bet in town, if you could just get your fucking emotions under control.
ITT: A demonstration of the precise behavior OP is trying to warn against.
yeah. There’s a difference between (for example) a transphobe screaming at you, and someone who doesn’t fully understand all the terms but supports you being yourself. People in the comments are thinking it’s more of the former than the ladder.
Also, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Never forget that even though we knew that Stalin was a vicious mass murderer of his own people, we allied with him to defeat Hitler, and it is highly unlikely that we could have done it without out them, or at least it would have taken us far longer, and cost many more lives.
We turned on each other the moment the war was over, but at least we could agree to put aside our differences for the time being.
It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP. I despise them with everything I have, and will want accountability when this is over, but if they are willing to assist us in purging MAGA from society, we are going to have to hold our noses and accept their help.
It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP.
Kamala tried that, it lead to Leftists not voting for Kamala Harris because they no longer saw a difference between her and Trump, and Rightists didn’t vote for Kamala Harris because even the “Never-Trumper” faction of the party gets in line behind whoever the GOP tells them to. Because Republicans have something Democrats will never have, unquestionable brand loyalty.
MAGA will be not be defeated by cooperating with Conservatives who fear that they “Must defeat Trump to save the party”, this is because Conservatives do not have an ideology, they have a tribe, and their tribe must always win or their Gods will hold them accountable.
If Conservatives turn against MAGA, it will be because they’ve been directly targeted by MAGA and are looking for a way out, and by the time that happens it’ll already be too late. “No one left to speak for me” as the poem goes.
That said, the Right Wing portion of the Supreme Court is turning against Trump for this exact reason, they realize that if they don’t he will just get rid of the Supreme Court and rule directly.
If “The TRUE Republicans” wanted to work with us to destroy Trumpism, I’d gladly accept their help, but they will NEVER work against the tribe.
Personally, I think Free America and the Allies would be teaming up with the Mexican Cartels. If anyone can terrorize the Trump Regime, it would be them. IMO, it wouldn’t be surprising if Mexico and the Allies promise to give away Texas to the Cartels as a spoil of war.
teaming with what might as well be classified as terrorists, and literal drug trafficking cartels is kind of insane not gonna lie.
Agreed. Unfortunately, we live in a world where Project 2025 is being supported by the 1%.
yeah, there is also that.
There is no substantive difference between “MAGA” and the traditional GOP.
LMAO the “traditional GOP” was killed by MAGA.
More like MAGA is the traditional GOP dropping the mask
Naah, I like my version better. More accurate.
Nah, your version implies that there was ever a traditional GOP that was meaningfully different from MAGA
No, my version is simply the correct one.
Then again, you sound like a tankie so you’d probably favor a Stalin-esque communist-style rule where the government disappears people on a whim like they had in the Soviet Union.
With that in mind, I’m surprised you don’t agree with Trump’s policy of sending dissidents to El Salvadorian gulags. Tankies love making dissidents disappear, after all.
Liberals not descend into lazy insults and strawmen challenge (impossible).
Good to know the definition of tankie has continued to expand that it now includes “people to the left of George Bush”
Dear 50501 folks,
Every so often I check my messages at Facebook and noted there’s a big 50501 group there… any chance you could get that group to start educating their Facebook members that supporting Facebook means supporting the coup and fascism?
Just a thought, Wwe
I get what you’re saying, but if we sequester ourselves to niche spaces, how can we spread information? Isn’t it important to reach Facebook users?
What you do is underground railroad them out of Facebook.
Dear Captain My Captain,
Here is a link to a document I’m working on that hopes to do just that. Please let me know what you think:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
And it’s not just the Cap’n I hope to get comments from. Please dive in.
Using Facebook to attract disgruntled hostiles who are potentially ripe for recruitment, or those who are politically agnostic and getting angry at what is happening to them, and poisoning one of their primary propganda mouthpieces, are all important missions.
Breaking through to them is something I have tried to do for years. I’ve stumbled up on this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
Comments if you have them.
How about don’t ask the opposition to host it and instantly doxx every person who touches that link? Just a thought. No fucking clue what is actually on the other side of that blue text and I’m not going to check
You’re literally just making a list for them
Seriously… link to FOSS app plz
Slow down. We are on the same side.
My thought here is that corporate owned social media needs to be destroyed and the best way to do that is to make it irrelevant — the way folks already in the Fediverse find it.
The way to make it irrelevant is to make it a ghost town.
Dreaming big, I wrote something for… Facebook idiots that might… just might… be persuaded to try something new. It’s just a doc. I can paste in the text? I guess I’m not tracking what you are concerned about?
I’m so new to the Fediverse myself, I don’t know about the closest thing there is to google docs? Educate me. I’ll pop the doc on that and then delete this link.
The coup? Who is overthrowing what exactly? I seriously just dont understand these things. I can’t imagine it’s very legit if there hasn’t been a call to arms. That’s why we bear arms, right? For perhaps an attempted coup.
Please read this:
looks around the thread
I don’t know why you felt the need to make a message like this, OP. We’re all fully united and never quibble over inconsequential shit.
In this essay, I will outline how your post actually SUPPORTS the patriarchy…
FOUND THE NAZI
Unsure how this is supposed to help my bowels but thanks for sharing anyway! /j
On a serious note, yeah, this has been tricky for me to learn and internalise. Especially when the topics are close to home.
“I can’t vote for Harris! She was endorsed by Dick Cheney!”
By that logic, none of the people threatened by the Nazis should have accepted help from Imperialist England and racist USA.
It was an excuse to validate inaction. Nobody actually cared about the election anymore at this point because so many foreign agents have spent so many years just pouring tons of resources into amplifying both sides of our every social issue, no matter how silly or minor, until people stopped taking a position, people just tuned out because there didn’t seem to be anyone reasonable, anywhere, and we all have to survive. There are just so many hours in the day for fact-checking, and a quarter of America is functionally illiterate anyway.
On some level people knew they were just checking out and throwing the game, so that’s why they clung to so many weak, frankly fucking stupid arguments against Harris.
Protest voters did not meaningfully impact the election.
I’m not even talking about “protest voters” specifically, i’m talking about the ~90 million who just didn’t vote for whatever reasons. Because they were “busy” because they were confused about the issues. Because they didn’t have time, because they didn’t care, because they didn’t like either candidate, because they liked a candidate but were afraid of popular opinion, because they were “tired of politics” and so on.
And this isn’t touching on the number of people who voted Trump just for “fun” because they thought we “need the shakeup.”
But all that said, if you “protest” by not voting you’re dumber than rocks. Dumb rocks.
Those people will not participate unless it’s required by law.
Expect at least 1 thrid of the population to never vote otherwise.
Vibes feel like a third, data shows it’s closer to half of eligible voters not participating in most recent elections.
Rates have varied wildly in the US, but the last several decades (except for Biden’s last run) have been low, and this is by design. Advent of media has allowed political factions to disrupt each other on a much larger scale, and the general population is too vulnerable to these attacks and appeals, and instead of making people want to get involved, the chaos makes people not want to learn the truth, so we have had elections with barely more than half of eligible voters participating.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/voter-turnout-in-presidential-elections
Cool they will never participate so focus on the ones who will
I think you need to take a break from the internet and walk around in the company of live humans.
People didn’t vote for Harris because she was a colored woman, that’s what voting patterns show
They just said it was because of Dick Cheney or Palestine
Reminds me of this story.
In 1980 they took a poll of people who had been eligible to vote in the 1960 election between John Kennedy and Richard Nixon. One of the questions they asked was ‘who did you vote for in 1960?’ In real life, the election was 51-49% a real squeaker. However, according to the poll, it was a 90-10% blow out for JFK.
Exit polls said people mostly switched to Trump because of their concerns about grocery prices, which they attributed to the current president (Biden) and thought that Harris just represented more of Biden’s policies.
Exit polling is generally considered a little more viable because there’s less “agenda” behind people’s answers.
All this said, the real culprit here was outside influence. Over the last decade or so there have been many foreign “troll farms” paid to flood American social media with accounts boosting the loudest, most outlandish takes on BOTH sides of every social issue. This is the KGB handbook for destabilizing democracies. Racism and sexism was part of it, but so was deliberate sabotage and efforts to boost racism and sexism in the US. Which we seem to fall for with ease.
Once the general population can no longer tell what’s real or not, once they can’t figure out what side to take because everything is too hard to follow or too complex take a side on, they tune out. They stop getting involved. They hear a state-controlled news site (FOX, Rogan) give them a story and they shrug and accept it because they don’t know the alternative.
Nearly half of eligible voters didn’t turn out last election, and I say again, this was by design.
edit: user below has a history of getting banned across Lemmy, unsurprisingly, but if anyone is interested and not just here to be delusional and weird, they can look this up, election was sabotaged from many directions, if you can’t handle talking about this problem, you have no business on the internet making statements. I can defend and discuss what I’ve learned with a cool head, can you?
I don’t know why you think if you keep posting the same meme in reply to me that I’m going to do anything other than block you. It’s lame, it’s 2-dimensional and self-gratifying and contributes nothing to the conversation.
Less 2-dimensional and self-gratifying than you endlessly posting your Qanon-style conspiracy theory about how all of America’s problems are actually due to the perfidious machinations of conniving foreigners.
Nah if you refuse to look at voting data because it goes against your narrative you can fuck right off.
The real numbers show white men/women, and hispanic men stayed home for Kamala when previously they voted for Biden.
And that’s a difference of almost 13 million votes which would have made them win in 2024.
Those groups could vote for the white man but not the colored woman with the same policies.
I’m blocking you now because reality is not subjective.
I don’t think you’re actually blocking me, I think you just aren’t prepared to have an actual conversation and just wanted to rant without anyone adding more complexity and nuance to your head-story. I’m not even arguing or denying that you had a point, I’m supplying you additional information and data, you should be appreciative.
I’m sorry, but reality is also more complicated than the 2-dimensional, cartoonish talking points your favorite youtube political streamer dumps on you.
Voting for a genocidal nazi to prevent another genocidal nazi is not how you stop genocidal nazis. This poster is not about electoralism, but addressing its inherent failure in any state wherein the discussion on genocide is not whether or not to do it, but to whom.
Congratulations.
You made the Gaza genocide worse, enabled Israel to attack more countries, screwed the people of Ukraine, and got mass deportations and attacks on transpeople in the USA.
Keep telling me what a great job you did.
Adults realize that sometimes there are no good choices, on bad ones and terrible ones.
Protest voters did not meaningfully impact the election.
Congratz on getting tricked into despising poor college students like your boomer parents.
You made the Gaza genocide worse
No. The genocide was just as bad under the Democrats, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it. In that sense, Trump has actually been better for Gaza, because at least liberals like you will actually acknowledge what’s happening there under him, rather than downplaying and denying it.
No, you people and the fascist slogan of ‘vote blue no matter who,’ did quite literally all of that. Liberals have been the only people in history to willingly embrace fascism, and you’ve done it again. Each time so far by voting for the lesser evil by your fucked up definition until it just happens. All because you’re scared of classless societies.
Liberals appointed Hitler to stop them evil commies, liberals chose to get trump elected to stop them evil democratic socialists.
I’m pretty sure next time you’ll elect super Hitler to stop them evil neoliberals that are just too left wing for you all.
This is pretty fucking stupid.
“Vote for Neoliberal fascism or you’re getting conservative fascism” is a stupid Duopoly to accept you’re right.
So, you take no blame for an election that happened last year, but blame me for an election that happened long before I was born?
Okay, you win.
You picked your ideology willingly, despite knowing what it always leads to. You get no sympathy or assumption of good faith from me.
And no, I don’t take any blame for voting against genocide while protesting in the street against the uniparty. You voted for genocide.
And no, I don’t take any blame
I’m shocked by that. Absolutely stunned.
I’ve seen the bodies resulting from what makes you cheer, your boos mean nothing to me.
More fiber? What kind of movements are we talking about?
Smart.
Smart smart smart.
